Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 35
Discussion Thread: (4-35) Proposal: Revert nerf to Inquisitors
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
There was an undocumented change that made Inquisitors only remove 50% of the target city's foreign pressure instead of all of it. This proposal acts as a formal vote for it.
Proposal: Revert INQUISITION_EFFECTIVENESS to 100
Rationale:
1. Inquisitors cost the same as missionaries, but only has one charge, and causes one turn of resistance to the city when used. This severely limits the use case of Inquisitors. They're only worth using when you have a high base pressure of your own religion (this point is the same regardless of effectiveness), AND also high pressure of foreign religions. Otherwise you'll find that it doesn't move the follower count much, and it's better to use Missionaries or even Great Prophets instead.
2. For the AI, it often means giving up on their religion after Industrial era. It's not uncommon to see entire areas of the map filled with religionless cities. This is true even if effectiveness is set to 100% by the way, just happening later (maybe Modern or Atomic).
VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 35a
Discussion Thread: (4-35a) Counterproposal: Remove resistance from Inquisitors
Proposer: @pineappledan
Sponsor: @Recursive
Proposal Details
Right now inquisitors do this:
- Cost 200 faith
- Remove half of all foreign religious pressure in a city, or at least 1 follower’s worth of foreign pressure. Whichever is bigger.
Cause 1 turn of
resistance in that city (generate no yields and maximum
unhappiness for 1 turn)
Problem:
Using inquisitors to maintain your own religion is currently too punishing.
Solution:
Inquisitor
Remove the 1 turn ofResistance when an inquisitor removes heresy.
Increase the
Faith cost of inquisitors to 300, scaling with era (50% more than a missionary)
Inquisition Enhancer
No longer removes the turn of Resistance from Inquisitor action (since that no longer exists)
Increase Faith purchase discount on Inquisitors to 33% (from 300 to 200, same as a missionary)
History:
Inquisitors originally removed 100% of all foreign religious pressure for only 200 faith.
The turn of resistance was added first, because inquisitors were too efficient at protecting your religion at minimal cost to your faith economy.
Then, inquisitors effectiveness was halved to 50% of foreign pressure. A floor was later added so that they could “mop up” small bits of pressure in cities, instead of just halving small amounts.
With the old 100%, a religious defender’s ability to protect itself was absolute; they just had to tolerate the cost. There was no spreading play, because the spreading counterplay shut down foreign spreading entirely.With inquisitor’s remove heresy effectiveness halved, a dedicated spreader can still overwhelm a defender. This also added a new dimension to spreading to yourself: is it more effective to remove foreign pressure with an inquisitor or add more of my own pressure with a missionary?
The problem now is that the cost of using inquisitors is too high. It used to be worth it when they could completely shut down foreign spread, but now it is paralyzingly to your empire’s economy for too little gain.
With this change, we keep the more interesting decisions that 50% inquisitors gives. Defending yourself from foreign religions returns to being about putting your faith economy against a foreign religion’s faith output of missionaries. Unlike reverting back to 100% effective inquisitors, this also allows for religious domination of foreign civs, because their defence isn’t perfect.
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 35
Discussion Thread: (4-35) Proposal: Revert nerf to Inquisitors
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
There was an undocumented change that made Inquisitors only remove 50% of the target city's foreign pressure instead of all of it. This proposal acts as a formal vote for it.
Proposal: Revert INQUISITION_EFFECTIVENESS to 100
Rationale:
1. Inquisitors cost the same as missionaries, but only has one charge, and causes one turn of resistance to the city when used. This severely limits the use case of Inquisitors. They're only worth using when you have a high base pressure of your own religion (this point is the same regardless of effectiveness), AND also high pressure of foreign religions. Otherwise you'll find that it doesn't move the follower count much, and it's better to use Missionaries or even Great Prophets instead.
2. For the AI, it often means giving up on their religion after Industrial era. It's not uncommon to see entire areas of the map filled with religionless cities. This is true even if effectiveness is set to 100% by the way, just happening later (maybe Modern or Atomic).
VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 35a
Discussion Thread: (4-35a) Counterproposal: Remove resistance from Inquisitors
Proposer: @pineappledan
Sponsor: @Recursive
Proposal Details
Right now inquisitors do this:
- Cost 200 faith
- Remove half of all foreign religious pressure in a city, or at least 1 follower’s worth of foreign pressure. Whichever is bigger.
Cause 1 turn of
resistance in that city (generate no yields and maximum unhappiness for 1 turn)Problem:
Using inquisitors to maintain your own religion is currently too punishing.
Solution:
Inquisitor
Remove the 1 turn of
Resistance when an inquisitor removes heresy.Increase the
Faith cost of inquisitors to 300, scaling with era (50% more than a missionary)Inquisition Enhancer
No longer removes the turn of Resistance from Inquisitor action (since that no longer exists)
Increase Faith purchase discount on Inquisitors to 33% (from 300 to 200, same as a missionary)
History:
Inquisitors originally removed 100% of all foreign religious pressure for only 200 faith.
The turn of resistance was added first, because inquisitors were too efficient at protecting your religion at minimal cost to your faith economy.
Then, inquisitors effectiveness was halved to 50% of foreign pressure. A floor was later added so that they could “mop up” small bits of pressure in cities, instead of just halving small amounts.
With the old 100%, a religious defender’s ability to protect itself was absolute; they just had to tolerate the cost. There was no spreading play, because the spreading counterplay shut down foreign spreading entirely.With inquisitor’s remove heresy effectiveness halved, a dedicated spreader can still overwhelm a defender. This also added a new dimension to spreading to yourself: is it more effective to remove foreign pressure with an inquisitor or add more of my own pressure with a missionary?
The problem now is that the cost of using inquisitors is too high. It used to be worth it when they could completely shut down foreign spread, but now it is paralyzingly to your empire’s economy for too little gain.
With this change, we keep the more interesting decisions that 50% inquisitors gives. Defending yourself from foreign religions returns to being about putting your faith economy against a foreign religion’s faith output of missionaries. Unlike reverting back to 100% effective inquisitors, this also allows for religious domination of foreign civs, because their defence isn’t perfect.
