4,500 hrs. C3C; 100 hrs. C4W

Olson

Warlord
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
283
Location
Long Island, NY
From 2006-Feb.2012 I played about 4,500 hrs. of C3 (lastly C3C) and was making the transition from Monarch to Emperer. My playing style was to get a Domination Victory by about 1700 AD. Now, after a year hiatus; on 4/1/13, I started playing C4W and have logged about 100 hrs.

I started with Chieftan but that was too easy even without doing anything efficiently. Now, on Warlord level, I'm not achieving the GPP or City Specialization well enough, to have the Medieval and Renaissance Era domination, for which I'm looking to have as the foundation for the rest of the game, and which I'll need to know to advance to more difficult levels.

On Warlord level, by the time I enter the Classical Era, usually around 1200 BC, I consistently have 3-5 cities, founded at least 2 religions, and will complete 1-3 Ancient Era Wonders. But I can sense my momentum starting to lag about halfway through the Medieval Era.

I've read through the C4 War Academy articles and they were a lot of help but there's a gap in that I'm focused, at the moment, on what's available only from the Ancient to Medieval Eras. To help resolve this I think I need some ambiguities resolved:

1) If a city's GPP %'s are, for example, 20% artist, 40% engineer, and 40% prophet one turn before the GP is created, does this mean there is a 20% chance the GP will be an artist? Or will the GP always be whichever type has the greatest, final %?

2) Inevitably, I end up with my intended early game Barracks City becoming a Holy City. Usually because of the tile make-up, I'm not going to get the best mid to late game commerce from it but the shrine income makes me want to do something to multiply it. Should I just build a Market and let it go at that or am I missing a greater early game efficiency?

Thanks for any advice. It will be much appreciated.

Edit: I found the following :http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/gp_points.php
 

lymond

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)
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Hall of Fame Staff
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Welcome to CFC! :)

1) Get BTS

2) Peruse this forum closely. Maybe play a game on here with us. Learn a couple of basics and Warlord level will be so easy you will laugh heartily at your current frustration

3) Popping GPs is chance when your city produces multiple types of GPPs. Higher the % higher the chance, athough it always seems I get the one I don't want. The best way to control it is to keep a city pure. So be careful where you build wonders if you are concerned about it.

4) Founding early religions is bunk. Focus on worker techs for your immediate land (FOOD IS SO IMPORTANT IN THIS GAME), get a strat tech like BW, then go Writing, get your first library up and to scientists running. Build academy with GS in your cap. Simple great approach for now starting out. (Granted, because Warlord level is very very very very very easy level, you can get away with founding all the religions if you want, but I don't advise it if you really want to learn to play the game and move up difficulty)

5) If you are founding early religions - which you should not do - and happen to pop a Great Prophet - which you usually want to avoid but can't always help with wonders like Oracle - your holy city may not be in an ideal gold producing site. Doesn't matter really. The income is "static". If your shrine is producing a nice chunk of change then you will want gold multipliers regardless of the city's specialization. Simply whip in a market, grocer bank as they come in.

I usually capture shrine cities. Let the AI waste all the time and effort on that stuff, while you put hammers into the units that will go capture their juicy shrine city.

6) Get BTS

7) In case I did not mention it, get BTS ;)
 

Olson

Warlord
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
283
Location
Long Island, NY
Welcome to CFC! :)

1) Get BTS

2) Peruse this forum closely. Maybe play a game on here with us. Learn a couple of basics and Warlord level will be so easy you will laugh heartily at your current frustration

3) Popping GPs is chance when your city produces multiple types of GPPs. Higher the % higher the chance, athough it always seems I get the one I don't want. The best way to control it is to keep a city pure. So be careful where you build wonders if you are concerned about it.

4) Founding early religions is bunk. Focus on worker techs for your immediate land (FOOD IS SO IMPORTANT IN THIS GAME), get a strat tech like BW, then go Writing, get your first library up and to scientists running. Build academy with GS in your cap. Simple great approach for now starting out. (Granted, because Warlord level is very very very very very easy level, you can get away with founding all the religions if you want, but I don't advise it if you really want to learn to play the game and move up difficulty)

5) If you are founding early religions - which you should not do - and happen to pop a Great Prophet - which you usually want to avoid but can't always help with wonders like Oracle - your holy city may not be in an ideal gold producing site. Doesn't matter really. The income is "static". If your shrine is producing a nice junk of change then you will want gold multipliers regardless of the city's specialization. Simply whip in a market, grocer bank as they come in.

I usually capture shrine cities. Let the AI waste all the time and effort on that stuff, while you put hammers into the units that will go capture their juicy shrine city.

6) Get BTS

7) In case I did not mention it, get BTS ;)

So, the parts I highlighted in bold would be your answer? Thanks.
 
Joined
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Messages
3,663
If a city's GPP %'s are, for example, 20% artist, 40% engineer, and 40% prophet one turn before the GP is created, does this mean there is a 20% chance the GP will be an artist?

Yes.


Inevitably, I end up with my intended early game Barracks City becoming a Holy City. Usually because of the tile make-up, I'm not going to get the best mid to late game commerce from it but the shrine income makes me want to do something to multiply it. Should I just build a Market and let it go at that or am I missing a greater early game efficiency?

Less or more. Most of the time, the religion mini game isn't worth the bother, which means that attaching a great prophet to your best city is going to be almost as good as constructing the shrine.

But, if you are playing the religion mini game (spreading your religion to a LOT of cities), then you can reasonably throw hammers at the market, grocer, bank, and maybe Wall Street. Don't bother changing the tiles to a commerce alignment - keep churning out units.
 

Fippy

Mycro Junkie Queen
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
12,630
1) If a city's GPP %'s are, for example, 20% artist, 40% engineer, and 40% prophet one turn before the GP is created, does this mean there is a 20% chance the GP will be an artist?

Nope, around 75% it's an artist. They always pop up when you don't need them, one of Civs deeply hidden rules.
 

Izuul

Level 86
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
6,915
Yeah, NE cities love to pop GAs at 5% odds when you need a GS for Philo/Edu/Lib :)
 

Olson

Warlord
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
283
Location
Long Island, NY
Yes.




Less or more. Most of the time, the religion mini game isn't worth the bother, which means that attaching a great prophet to your best city is going to be almost as good as constructing the shrine.

But, if you are playing the religion mini game (spreading your religion to a LOT of cities), then you can reasonably throw hammers at the market, grocer, bank, and maybe Wall Street. Don't bother changing the tiles to a commerce alignment - keep churning out units.

Thanks, knowing this helps. My thought concerns State Religion spread for Organized Religion and during Open Borders, prior to a DoW, to aide post city capture assimilation, as well as, intelligence gathering. It's my understanding a shrine will randomly spread its religion, especially to cities without any, so I may not need to bother with a missionary for my newly settled cities which will aide building temples to counter unhappiness.
 
Joined
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It's my understanding a shrine will randomly spread its religion, especially to cities without any, so I may not need to bother with a missionary for my newly settled cities which will aide building temples to counter unhappiness.

The religion spreads itself from the holy city. The shrine improves the odds, tho.

Also, not "especially to cities without any", but "only to cities without any". The unmodified code does not support spontaneous conversion in cities that already know god(s).
 

Olson

Warlord
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May 5, 2013
Messages
283
Location
Long Island, NY
The religion spreads itself from the holy city. The shrine improves the odds, tho.

Also, not "especially to cities without any", but "only to cities without any". The unmodified code does not support spontaneous conversion in cities that already know god(s).

Yea, I forgot I learned that recently. Thanks for reminding me (had a "Senior moment"). On Warlord lvl it's so easy to found a religion, get a GProphet, and build a shrine that it's easy to forget it's level of importance (whether low or high).
 

Robert FIN

Emperor
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
1,363
Location
Finland
Yea, I forgot I learned that recently. Thanks for reminding me (had a "Senior moment"). On Warlord lvl it's so easy to found a religion, get a GProphet, and build a shrine that it's easy to forget it's level of importance (whether low or high).

I just moved up to "Prince" difficulty and I thought that founding an early religion would be a great strategy. However, always some other leader was faster than me. I got fed up and asked about this in IU game. The immortals laughed at me and said: "Bwahahaa! Didn't you know that AI gets research bonus in prince lvl and hi'er?". That was true. AI has tech advantage in levels what are higher than Noble so don't get used to found EARLY religions ;)
 

Olson

Warlord
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
283
Location
Long Island, NY
I just moved up to "Prince" difficulty and I thought that founding an early religion would be a great strategy. However, always some other leader was faster than me. I got fed up and asked about this in IU game. The immortals laughed at me and said: "Bwahahaa! Didn't you know that AI gets research bonus in prince lvl and hi'er?". That was true. AI has tech advantage in levels what are higher than Noble so don't get used to found EARLY religions ;)

In Civ3 it's Monarch that's parity and in Civ4 it's Noble, I believe.

I'm sorry to hear you weren't treated with more respect and consideration. 1,200+ rated chess players often have a similarly snobbish attitude. It's the evil geek in them.
 

Robert FIN

Emperor
Joined
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Messages
1,363
Location
Finland
In Civ3 it's Monarch that's parity and in Civ4 it's Noble, I believe.

I'm sorry to hear you weren't treated with more respect and consideration. 1,200+ rated chess players often have a similarly snobbish attitude. It's the evil geek in them.

Okay...Well... Actually I overreacted a little :lol:! They didn't tease me. I just ment that they had to think that my strategy was redicilous, they didn't jeer at me :). Its always a good thing to get advice here! And welcome to the forums, by the way!! :banana::banana::banana:!!!!
 

tijup

Warlord
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
246
Don't forget that some AIs tend to attack Human/AIs with a different religion than theirs.
So, it's a common tactic to let the AIs found and spread religions in the BCs, and then, pick our side carefully.
Most often, there is at least 2 blocks, align yourself with the one your AI trading partners belong to. It will make your life easier most of the time.
 
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