4Xpansion Pass [4XP] Mod Series Announcement + Open Door for Ideas and Suggestions

What do you think of this?

  • Nah, Mechanics aren't quite my thing, I'm just here for the Civilizations and Leaders.

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Zegangani

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Oct 9, 2020
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Big Up Zegangani!!! True hero!!!

My Personal suggestion is... deity should be impossible to win for nearly everyone....
And cities should bare no HP at all... and see how the Ai responds to that...

Bravo!!!
Thanks for the nice Words!!
This Mod is mainly for Players who have 100s/1000s of Civ6 Hours in the Account and for Players who excell on deity Games, so more challenging Gameplay is included, but many of those challenges won't come from AI (who I'll still make a bit smarter, since we can improve it a little bit in one way or the other) but from Gameplay Systems that are designed to be explecitly challenging for the Human Player (So that the AI won't get ridiculous and unfair Bonuses).
However a 0HP City Center would be a too big of a move that most of the Players I think won't like. Tho, I hope I can find other Ways to make Warfare better.
 

Zegangani

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Due to lack of enough free Time in the last few Weeks (including more than a Week In which I was sick) I couldn't finish the first Mod Pack in a shippable State yet. It still needs plenty of Work and Testing, and the latter would take me even more Time since every Balance Change would require more Testing again (The Vassal System and Mercenaries being the major reasons).

And because I can't be sure about November, I've decided not to state a specific Date in which the Mod will/might be released. It can be mid/late November or early December, but I hope I can finish it before the end of November.

Thanks for your Support and Patience!
 
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Due to lack of enough free Time in the last few Weeks (including more than a Week In which I was sick) I couldn't finish the first Mod Pack in a shippable State yet. It still needs plenty of Work and Testing, and the latter would take me even more Time since every Balance Change would require more Testing again (The Vassal System and Mercenaries being the major reasons).

And because I can't be sure about November, I've decided not to state a specific Date in which the Mod will/might be released. It can be mid/late November or early December, but I hope I can finish it before the end of November.

Thanks for your Support and Patience!

Take all the time you need. It's much better to a have a finished, if delayed Mod Pack that you're happy with than an unfinished, rushed one that leaves you unsatisfied. It's all about taking as much time as you need.
 

chrisgatt7

Prince
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
395
Due to lack of enough free Time in the last few Weeks (including more than a Week In which I was sick) I couldn't finish the first Mod Pack in a shippable State yet. It still needs plenty of Work and Testing, and the latter would take me even more Time since every Balance Change would require more Testing again (The Vassal System and Mercenaries being the major reasons).

And because I can't be sure about November, I've decided not to state a specific Date in which the Mod will/might be released. It can be mid/late November or early December, but I hope I can finish it before the end of November.

Thanks for your Support and Patience!
Update ??
 

Zegangani

King
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
788
Well, fortunately I didn't specify any Date for a Release :mischief:. I tend to not have much Free Time in November and December, but I made some good Progress. Though, luckily, I'm getting help from Someone who's helping me making some new game Assets (mostly World Wonders), and I also stumbled over a function that allows for a Mechanic that many Warfare/Wide Play Enthusiasts would love to have in the Game (Hint: it's something from the previous Iteration of the Game), that fits the Theme of the 1st Pack so perfectly that I don't want to include it in another Pack + some other Features that I didn't mention in the Features List of Pack 1. All of that is pushing a possible release day further and further away, because all of it needs lots and lots of testing and balancing, which, you guessed right, needs Time, and I don't want to pressure myself too much, since there are 5 other Packs that are waiting for my attention (which 4 of them are much more packed with Features than the 1st one), so I don't want to get exhausted before I even get to them (Ask any renown Civ6 Modder and they well tell you how taxing it is to mod the Game).

I started working on the Design of 4XP way earlier this Year (it didn't have a Name back then tho), and since then I was doing a lot of research, improving my modding Skills, and also started working on many of it's Features, but I didn't have a good and clear overall Design to follow, till late Summer. So, lots of Time that I have spent into it and still do, that I don't want to culminate in a rushed and deficient 1st Mod Pack, but in a satisfying One. I just hope that I can deliver a proper Mod that anyone can enjoy from the Beginning. And, as a very wise man said:
It's much better to a have a finished, if delayed Mod Pack that you're happy with than an unfinished, rushed one that leaves you unsatisfied.
 

chrisgatt7

Prince
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
395
Well, fortunately I didn't specify any Date for a Release :mischief:. I tend to not have much Free Time in November and December, but I made some good Progress. Though, luckily, I'm getting help from Someone who's helping me making some new game Assets (mostly World Wonders), and I also stumbled over a function that allows for a Mechanic that many Warfare/Wide Play Enthusiasts would love to have in the Game (Hint: it's something from the previous Iteration of the Game), that fits the Theme of the 1st Pack so perfectly that I don't want to include it in another Pack + some other Features that I didn't mention in the Features List of Pack 1. All of that is pushing a possible release day further and further away, because all of it needs lots and lots of testing and balancing, which, you guessed right, needs Time, and I don't want to pressure myself too much, since there are 5 other Packs that are waiting for my attention (which 4 of them are much more packed with Features than the 1st one), so I don't want to get exhausted before I even get to them (Ask any renown Civ6 Modder and they well tell you how taxing it is to mod the Game).

I started working on the Design of 4XP way earlier this Year (it didn't have a Name back then tho), and since then I was doing a lot of research, improving my modding Skills, and also started working on many of it's Features, but I didn't have a good and clear overall Design to follow, till late Summer. So, lots of Time that I have spent into it and still do, that I don't want to culminate in a rushed and deficient 1st Mod Pack, but in a satisfying One. I just hope that I can deliver a proper Mod that anyone can enjoy from the Beginning. And, as a very wise man said:

Will your mod be compatible with Warfare Expanded Reloaded ?
 

Zegangani

King
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Will your mod be compatible with Warfare Expanded Reloaded ?
It will be compatible but not supported. My PC can't handle the Mod, so I have no chance to make the 2 Mods connected in some way or another. So Players will be able to use both Mods together, but 4XP won't have any effect on WE, like Unit Balance for example. Which, is unfortunate, since 4XP would ideally fit in longer Games, which justify having more Units in the Game, but I think JNR will be making a Units Mod in the Future that fills the Unit gaps in longer Games, which is part of his new Tech/Civic Tree rework Project. So I either will use that Mod, S&T Unit Expansion, WE Complete (tho it has too many New Units tbh) or I will make a new Mod that combines some of the Units in the 2 latter Mods, and use that to fill the Unit Gaps and Balance everything around it. (Ofc as a Mode for Players who like playing longer Games - And the Unit Balance probably won't be part of the 1st pack)

So, 4XP will be compatible with most Mods, and will have many Options to disable und customise many of its Features. And I already got permission from some Modders to directly use things from their Mods, so I don't need to do double work just to ensure compatibility with them.
 

Noble Zarkon

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  • MULTI UNIT MOVEMENT (MUM):
Human Players might be able to select a Unit and up to 6 Other Ones that they can move with the first selected Unit, with one single click. The additional Units will move with the first Unit and when they reach the destination Tile, they each move to an adjacent Tile of the primary selected Unit. (when selecting a Tile to move to, if the Player selected too much Units that can't all be moved to the adjacent Tiles (like blocked by Mountains), they will go to the next available Tiles).
Oh my goodness, if you get this working please release it as a Mod on it's own!!!
 

Zegangani

King
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Oh my goodness, if you get this working please release it as a Mod on it's own!!!
I haven't yet got to it, but it should be possibel. And Yes, I considered making Features like that in Standalone Mods.

There are plenty of similar QoL Features that I've planned (at least 1 per Mod Pack), But I won't spoil anything now ;).
 

Zegangani

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Oct 9, 2020
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Small Update on the Project:
Since the Mercenaries Mechanic is still buggy and needs more improvements/work, I decided to not included it the 1st Pack and replace it with another Mechanic (which is more needed). Another reason is that it isn't actually something needed for the Game, and it wouldn't be a Game-Changer either, so I think I'll include it in one of the later Packs, if I'm the Opinion that it'll still add something to the game and be helpful. (also because I want to finish the 1st pack as fast as possible, ideally in January)
 

cuso210

Warlord
Joined
Apr 6, 2012
Messages
125
Hey! I just found out about his mod, it seems it will improve the game in some aspects I think really need some touch ups. I'll be eager to know when the first pack is released, it would be awesome to test it.
 

Corgiwealth

Chieftain
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
4
Equally looking forward to this!

I've found there haven't been very many "feature addition" mods for Civ VI which has been a shame. Equally I find myself wanting for features from previous Civ games a lot when I used to try and play Civ VI, vassalage certainly being one of them, I don't always want to eradicate Civs from the map thus making games less interesting with less "people" to interact with.

The other area I was really disappointed never made it back was Ideologies. It could have been the crux of the late-mid to late game, the reason why relationships between old civs change and give way to whole new diplomatic dynamics and relationships, on top of being a way of make that playthrough a little more personal and unique with unique attributes.

I am excited to see how this pans out, I've played with your other mods and they're very well done, very well presented and absolute musts for me.
 

Zegangani

King
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Project Update:

I know, this Mod is taking me way more Time than I expected and said, but it is for the better, I'm sure of that. There are 2 main Reasons why it's taking me so long to work on this:

1) My original Design of the Vassalage Mechanic was more or less just a copy of the Civ IV Vassalage mechanic, and durring the research and the many testing phases, I encountered/noticed many Issues that came with it, so I decided to give it some more Time and research more about it, mainly about the Issues that Players had with it in Civ IV (and there were MANY!!). The Original Design also lacked some depth and uniques, and most of all, it didn't feel like part of the Game, but more like a ... an optional Game Mode. So I completely redesigned it from scratch (also, now called Client-States instead), added many flavor to it and also interconnected it with many existing Game Mechanics in a meaningful way.

2) AI. Although the Fear Mechanic facilitates replicating the decision making of AI when accepting/rejecting or offering a Vassalage Agreement, it is really difficult and Time consuming to hardcode the AI behavior for the other Sides of Vassalage (when and how to declare Independance and break free from the Master, how other Players may behave towards Masters and Vassals, how can they Influence the Vassal...etc).

If you read the Design Doc in the link below, you'll notice how big this Project has become. When designing the Vassalage Mechanic, I realized that it has too much Potential than to just be a simple and interesting enough mechanic to be played with. I realized that it can solve a lot of Problems that the Game suffers from (Snowballing, Micromanagement, late Game boredom...etc) and also make some other Mechanics more interesting when combining them with Vassalage (Like Diplomacy, Governments, Amenities...etc), but it also opens a door to many new Paths (such as Proxy Wars).

The Concept isn't finished yet, but is still a WIP (and maybe will be even after the release), so there is still room for improvements and for other existing Game Mechanics to connect it with (like Policies, Wonders, Buildings...etc). So, if you have any Ideas, Suggestions and/or Feedback then feel free to share them with me.

I posted a link to the Design Document of Client-States in a Thread in Ideas and Suggestions, you can reply there, here or leave a comment in the doc itself, anything that suits you :)

There is still much work to do, and the Mod isn't in a playable state yet, but I hope I can release a 1st Beta version in 2 Weeks or so.
 

Zegangani

King
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
788
I am excited to see how this pans out, I've played with your other mods and they're very well done, very well presented and absolute musts for me.
I'm happy to hear that! Thank you!
Equally looking forward to this!

I've found there haven't been very many "feature addition" mods for Civ VI which has been a shame. Equally I find myself wanting for features from previous Civ games a lot when I used to try and play Civ VI, vassalage certainly being one of them, I don't always want to eradicate Civs from the map thus making games less interesting with less "people" to interact with.
If you're a Vassalage Mechanic fan, then I would be really interested in your thoughts about my current Concept of Client-States (link in the Post above).
The other area I was really disappointed never made it back was Ideologies. It could have been the crux of the late-mid to late game, the reason why relationships between old civs change and give way to whole new diplomatic dynamics and relationships, on top of being a way of make that playthrough a little more personal and unique with unique attributes.
Same for me. If you read my Client-States Concept, then you will notice that Puppet-States could really fit and work well with an Ideologies System. The Puppet-States in the Concept aren't interesting enough on their own, but that won't be the case when Pack 6 will come out, which will reintroduce the Ideologies Mechanic to the Game :D.
 

Zegangani

King
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Oct 9, 2020
Messages
788
I don't have a release Date yet for the 1st Pack, but I might later post some individual Features for beta testing, so Players can try them out and give some feedback.
 

nea_baraja

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 17, 2022
Messages
2
Since last year I and my friends were waiting for this great project, becuase it's really interesting and the author is an expect modder. A year has passed, I and my friends have our own overhaul mod and add many mechanics to the game, but there is still no release of your "Great Project", not even any test editions. My friends think you are just a liar boasting youself with a mod that doesn't exists at all, and I also think your work is suspicious. Anyway, all of us would like to witness a great mod like what you said, if it's true. Wish you succeed in solving all the problems and releasing the mod.
 

Zegangani

King
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Oct 9, 2020
Messages
788
Well, I can see why People would get that Impression, and it's totally understandable. And to be honest, I regret having posted about this too early, because at that time I haven't even started with coding (just designing - I think) and many things have been changed since then. I wanted to get some Motivation and support from Civ Fans but I overly underestimated how much time this would take.

When I first started this, the goal wasn't to make an overhaul mod per se, but a moderate mod that reworks some mechanics and adds new ones (Think of Monopolies and Corporations Game Mode but more interconnected with the existing Game mechanics) specifically to make it compatible with other Mods, and it would have been easier/faster to mod for me. And after finishing everything, including balance and Bug Fixes, if Civ7 would be still far off, I would have started an actual overhaul Mod, with same mechanics but with more depth (with not much consideration to mod compatibility). That has changed. I came to my own personal conclusion that I still enjoy Civ6 and want to play it for several more Years, even after Civ7 comes out, for which I don't have much hope that it will be more modding friendlier than Civ6 IMO. So I decided to not waste time working on non-deep mechanics that would be just Game Modes just to work on them later again to make them more detailed, and instead make the Features exactly how I would like them to be from the get go. That resulted in screwing up most of the features that I have been designed, and I started designing everything from scratch.

Though, I will be honest with you, I found myself very often jumping from working on one Feature to another, even to ones from Packs other than the 1st one. Reason being is that I can't focus on one single Feature all the time, I get easily bored and my mind shifts too much to other things in the Mod, especially when I get Ideas on how to make them better. Like I have finished about ~60% of Client-States (still not happy with Vassals and Puppet States and the UI is also not finished), but I stopped working at it for now and started with a new Armies System (which I hope to be the Test Mod I will be releasing first, not Vassalage (now called Client States) as I previously said). And I guess that slows down the pacing of the progress a lot, even though it helps later Packs to be finished more faster I suppose.

Another reason why it's taking me so long, is that I don't have as much free time to work on this as I used to have like half a Year ago, life got too much restricting lately.

I'm not making any excuses here, just trying to explain, since you seem to be interested, why the development of this mod is taking so long. After all, I'm only just one person working on this, and most of the things I'm doing in this mode is via lua with a lot of workarounds due to some modding limitations, which isn't a fun thing to do (it's no surprise that no modder, apart from Gedemon, was interested in making a similar mod without the DLL). And I don't want to overstrain myself but do everything at my comfortable pace, so that I can also be happy with the results later.

Anyway, thanks for your interest in this Mod, I'm glad that there are still People waiting for this Mod to be released, so I will take your post as a push for me to try to at least finish the Armies System ASAP (I don't think this one will take too long, but I won't make the mistake again and state a date ^^ - maybe more posts like yours would have pushed/motivated me to finish this way earlier lol), so people can at least try that Feature before I wrap up the complete 1st Pack.
 
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Thanks for sharing your process! Definitely very ambitious, and it has been impressive to see your commitment to vision. Rooting for you irl and in modding :)
 
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