4Xpansion Pass [4XP] Mod Series Announcement + Open Door for Ideas and Suggestions

Zegangani · Sep 17, 2021

Hello CivFans!

I’m Zegangani, a fellow CivFanatic and Civilization VI Modder. I'm a huge Fan of the Civilization Franchise, and while I haven't played Civ IV and prior iterations (and Spin-Offs), I'm still familiar with many of their Mechanics, which I really like (especially Civ IV's), and wish they would have been included in Civ VI.

It's been 5 Years now since Civilization VI was released. 5 Years in which we had Hundreds or even Thousands of Hours of fun Times... and Frustration. Time well spent IMO. There is no Game that keeps me so engaged in it as Civilization VI, no Game that I've played got me looking forward to News about new Content, or counting the Days till a Release/Update Video or Livestream comes out (I miss that now that NFP has ended). And it has immensely increased my interest in History of Mankind. It also served as a Sanctuary for many Players during these Corona Times, including me. Not to forget the incredible Discussions about new/upcomming Content, Speculations and Criticism of CivFanatics here on this Awesome Forum! It is through and through something sensational to be part of this Community! So I will take this opportunity to thank Firaxis for bringing us together and giving us such a great Experience with Civilization, which is more than just a Game, so, thank you very much, Firaxis!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Civilization VI is, despite the many negative and legitimate Criticism from CivFans, me included, a really good and solid Game IMHO. It sure has many Flaws and Weaknesses, but I think its Strengths outweigh them. With 6 DLCs, 2 Expansions and a Full Pass of another 6 DLCs, (and many Scenarios), no other Iteration has delivered so much new Content after the initial Release as Civ VI did.

What I'm here to announce might imply the impression that I don't like the Game's Design and of it's many Features, hence I'm making this Mod to remodel it to my liking, but nothing is further from the Truth. I really like the Game's Mechanics/Systems and the Developers have made a great Job in making them very interesting and yet easy to understand for new Players and simple to play with, while also giving the chance for advanced Players to bring out more from them. But, like in everything else in Life, each Individual has it's own preferences/likings as well as things that they dislike or don't find interesting, like how others do.
I LOVE Civilization VI, otherwise I wouldn't have started modding it in the first place, and the reason I'm modding it is because I think many things could be further improved/expanded or need some Refinement and Balance. But I also would like to see some more new Mechanics and Features in the Game, especially for the Late Game. So my intent isn't to "Fix" the Game per se and remodel it to my likings, but rather, expand on what it already does (greatly), and fill the Gaps that it left out. My Attempt is to make this already good Game, a great One (from my POV ofc).

Although the Game is filled with Content and Features, yet it doesn't feel Complete for me. Especially with the Lack of an Expansion ala "Brave New World" of Civilization V, that would improve on many weak Points/Aspects of the Game and that solves the Late Game Lag Issue. And while it's very unlikely that we will see more new Content for the Game, we are still waiting for a Completion of the Game with a Final BugFix/Update Patch.

And while we are waiting for that, I decided to make my Own (unofficial) Expansion Mod that would serve as a Substitute for the missing Final Expansion DLC of Civilization VI.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Reciting Firaxis' Words) "History is full of rich Stories of great Empires, Exploration, Survival, and the Human Spirit". While Firaxis has managed to capture a lot of this in Civilization VI, there are still some things missing that would greatly extend this and provide a more complete Experience of it. And the best thing that would deliver such an Experience, is improving on the Four Xs that this Game is built on.
Extermination, Expansion, Exploitation and Exploration are the main Pillars of a 4X Strategy Game, But Civilization has more to offer than just this Four Promises. Diplomacy, Trade, Economics and Government, these, and more, have already expanded the experience that we get from the Four Xs. But yet, so much more could be got out from Civilization VI, so much more that could satisfy our desire of a "Perfect 4X Historical Game". The 4 Xs are the primary theme that I wanted to explore with:

Zegangani's Civilization VI: 4Xpansion Pass

I’m happy and excited to announce "4Xpansion Pass" [4XP] ! a Mod Series that I've been designing and working on for quite some Time Now. "4XP" is a set of 6 Mod Packs, with each including a set of new Mechanics (some big some small) or reworked existing Ones, as well as many Gameplay Improvements and QoL Features. The Aim of this Mod Series is to flesh out and rework some of the existing Mechanics that could need some more depth and fine-tuning/polishment, make them more interconnected (as far as the Modding Possibilities allow) and introduce new Ones, that fill the empty Gaps in the Game or serve as Bridge Points between 2 poorly or not interconnected Mechanisms. But most importantly, expand on the 4X Aspects of the Game (but not exclusively).

Given that these Mod Packs require a lot of Time to be finished, I decided to release them similar to how the NFP Packs were released: one Mod Pack each 1.5/2 Months. Each Pack has a clear Design/Theme/Objective, and each introduced Pack builds on the previous One, terminating in the Final One completing the Circle for a (almost) "Perfect 4X Historical Civ VI"*.

*Not just from my Personal POV, but also because most of the Mechanics and Features included in this Mod Series are inspired by your (CivFanatcis/CivFans from Reddit and Civ Discord Servers...etc) own Ideas and Suggestions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Spoiler For whom this Mod Series is** :

Spoiler What is expected/What are the main Objectives** :

- Expanding on as much Mechanisms/Systems as possible,
- Bringing back the feeling of guiding/leading a Civilization through Time and Obstacles ("The Test of Time" being a real thing now),
- More emphasis on the Economic and Government Parts of the Game, with the Goal to make Empire Management more challenging and realistic,
- Diplomacy will be something that you need to consider in your Actions, and Relationships between other Players will be more interacting and much more relevant/important and have more meaning,
- Improving the Late Game by Introducing many new Mechanisms that play a big Role in later Eras, and many others and reworked existing ones that keep being relevant throughout the whole Game,
- Supporting Civilizations that fell behind by giving them a chance to catch up, especially in the Late Game, and by also giving more Challenge to the more advanced Civs to prevent them from Snowballing. Part of this will be reworked Victory Conditions that are redesigned to fit with the Changes,
- Balance between Wide and Tall Play. Players won't be able to go as wide as they can, but have to deal with the Costs and Consequences for doing so. And Tall Play will be Something worth striving for,
- Encouraging going with any Playstyle during a Game that suits the InGame Environment/Conditions by introducing new Features that unlock new Abilities durring the Game, while keeping the Flavor of the Civilizations and Leaders,
- Exploration won't be something exciting in the early Game only, but keeps being relevant for (almost) the whole Game,
- City Specialization will have big impact on your Empires' Developement, and Specialists will be the Backbone of this,
- Industrialization won't be just a Tech Name and more Production generation in your Cities, but will play a big Role in Trade and Economics, and it will shape the kind of Empire your Civilization will develop into in the later Eras,
- A Variety in Expansion Options. Expansion won't be just through Settling and Conquest, but Players will have many Options and Possibilities to expand their Zone of Control,
- If you think that the Game already offers a lot of good Ways to Exploit the Map, then be prepared to go really deep into the Jungle to get all the Treasures there!!,
- More Challenging Games for the Human Player. AI won't be challenging because of the Bonuses they get, but because of a redesigned Gameplay around AI, while also pushing Challenges more towards the Human Player (not too much... I promise

),

And many many More.

Spoiler Important Notes** :

Spoiler Things that won't be included in/reworked (but might be in the Future)** :

(**): All of that is meant for this Mod Series as a Whole. I can't guarantee any of that for the Single Mod Packs. All the Mod Packs build on each other and many of them are interconnected. So for a Full Experience of 4XP, all the Mod Packs are necessary.

Disclaimer:
- I'm the only Person who is working on this massive Mod Series, a One-Man Project, which already consumes all of my Free Time (Coding, testing, hardcoding the AI to make proper use of the Features of the Packs, research...etc), so I can't neither guarantee that the Packs will be released at fixed Dates nor can I promise to keep working on this Mod Series if there aren't many People interested in this, in which case I'll probably just make an Overhaul Mod out of it with my own preferences, which will be incompatible with most Mods (and not everybodys thing). So if you want this to succeed then drop a Like and share your Thoughts and Ideas with me and the People here (Discussion Ideas down below). Your Support will greatly encourage me to continue with this Work. I will perhaps also make a Patreon Page for everyone who wants to support this.

- You may find that some Mechanics/Features from a Pack could be more interconnecting with some existing Mechanics or of previous Packs. That's because I left that for other Packs that tackle those Mechanisms, so they build on each other. And it's also because the Packs are already filled with too much Stuff to work on and think about, so saving some things for later Packs and Updates is necessary.
But keep sharing your Thoughts and Suggestions about things, because I may not have thought about certain things (and definitely not about everything), which is 100% the case.

- I liked how the NFP made as curious about the next Packs, speculating about possible Content and having Wish-Lists, and all that stuff that sparked lots and lots of Discussions. It kept us engaged with it and the Game. I wanted to keep that for this Mod Series by not revealing all infos about it from the Beginning, but, just like NFP, show all the Infos of a Pack when it comes out, while also revealing the Theme of the next One, so People can try to come up with Ideas (and Speculations) for that next Pack. (The First Pack is an exception for this)

- The Goal of this Mod Series, beside bringing more content to the Game and expanding on the existing Mechanics, is to release Modular Packs of Content that can be used alongside other Mods, and collect Feedback and Suggestions from the Players to complete this Series of Packs in a finished State. After that, if Civilization VII is still a Long Way Off, I will start working on a Total Overhaul Mod, by building on the Content of this Mod Series.

Spoiler Thinks that are Welcome for Discussions :

- Leader Agendas/Preferences: Civ VI's Leader Agendas are kinda blunt and rather take more than they add to the personality of Leaders. So how do you think the personality of Leaders should be represented? Perhaps with a set of Preferences for each Leader, that also change based on the InGame Situations and with Time? Or do you rather want Civ IV or Civ V Style Personalities?

- Corporations and Monopolies: assuming you already have the necessary Industries and the resources to maintain them, how should the spread of Corporations look like (I would avoid using Units to spread Corporations, as AI would comletely fail at this, so something that you can control in a seperate UI Menu rather than on Map, like managing Spys, would be much better for AI)? and what would define a Monopoly (just controling more copies of a resource than other Players, or would the quality of Products have bigger impact on Monopolies?)?

- Colonisation: My thoughts were making Cities on Foreign Continent accumulate more of a given Luxury and Strategic Resource, require less Amenities and make for very profitable Trade Routes, but generate less Science, Culture and Gold. But I think using an Outpost-like Colony Improvement that claims its surrounding Tiles (like in Strategic Forts Mod) and that uses the food yields of those tiles to grow its Population till it becomes a Full City would make for a much better Colonisation Game (Again, AI, but I think I might get it working for it). So what are your thoughts on this? How do you think should Colonization be represented in the Game?

- Health: I totally understand the People that didn't want to have a Pandemics/Diseases Mechanism in the Game, with Corona being the major reason. I was recently in the same Situation as many of those People, and I have to say, I would have hated it if this Mechanism was in the Game. Because playing Civ in that Situation isn't just for Entertainment but also to escape from unpleasant Thoughts by simply having some good Time playing the Game and forgetting about everything else.
But there are also lots of People who were/are waiting for a Health and Diseases Mechanism in the Game. So I think a Solution to get both Sides Happy would be a Health Mechanism that doesn't require Pandemics/Diseases as the main drive for it, but something else, like the Health Systeme from Civ IV, maybe affecting Growth, and (and this will be a togglable option for the Player) occasionally (once per Era, in a random Turn) when a City has low Health Values, there will be a chance for a Pandemic Event to happen, that just results in the City losing a Pop or more in a Turn, and in Neighbouring Cities and Cities with Trade Route to the Infected City also losing some Pops, but in the following Turn. But nothing like in the BlackDeath Scenario with Plague Doctors and Mass Graves. So, what do you think of this? How do you think a Health Mechanism should look like/work in Civ VI?

- Any other Ideas?

Moderators:
I posted this in "Ideas and Suggestion" Thread instead of "Unreleased Mods" because although its an Announcement, its to give People an Idea of how the Mod Series is goint to be, so they can share their Thoughts, Ideas and Suggestion, which will influence the Mod Series throughout the whole Time I will be working on it. So it's not a ChangeLog Thread in which I post the Progress of the Mod (which I won't do for this Mod), but a Thread to gather Ideas and Suggestions for it.

Zegangani · Sep 17, 2021

Spoiler Initial Attempt :

Spoiler Inspiration :

Spoiler Reason & Motivation :

Yeah, Why? do I even have to justify this?

Short Answer: I'm a CivFanatic

.
Long Answer: I remember One Night, Pre NFP Announcement, I was thinking: "What If I could have some Influence on the Design of the Game? What would I change, what would I keep/remove, and what would I add new to the Game?". The Mind Game ended up with a Concept with a complete different Gameplay Orientation than of Civ VI, but with a similar Playstyle. That Night I didn't even think that One Day I would really be able to design the Civ Game I personally wanted to play. Back then, the only thing that I was capable of, is changing some values of Mods. But that wasn't enough for me, I wanted to modify the Game how I wanted it to be (with limited ambitions tbh). So I started Learning how to mod, I started to look at how Mods modify the Game and rifle through the Modding Threads in this Forum, which I have to admit, I never really read thoroughly, I just tweaked the mods I found interesting and learnt how they work. You get it... I'm the Kind of Person who instead of reading the Instruction Paper, immediately tries to figure things on their own, which leads to lots of failing but also in learning how things really work and are set up

. One and more than a Half Year Later, in which I got so much help from Modders who helped me learn a lot about Civ VI Modding, and with many modding Experiences gathered, I Now finally have the necessary Modding skills (though I still have a lot to learn) to dare making a Mod in this Magnitude. But reading Posts/Discussions from this Forum and participating in some Discussions myself changed my View of the Game a lot and also how I play it, but it also changed my initial thoughts of what I wanted to make in this Mod (culminating in this very Plan).

So this Mod Series is actually the Reason why I started Modding in the first Place. Even if back then I didn't imagine that I would be able to do this, it's still something that I always wanted to have in the Game. Why? Because I love the Game and I like playing Longer Games on bigger Maps, that I can't finish in a Day but in a couple of Ones (also because My PC isn't HighEnd Tech, so My Games always end in long waiting Times between Turns, and very long Late Games). Lots of Play Time where I get easily annoyed by unbalanced stuff and insufficient interesting Choices to make, especially since I'm the Builder Type of Player. I like Micromanagement and thinking a lot when making decisions. The AI doesn't make for a good Threat to feel challenged though, so having other interesting things to do in My Games are essential to me. I want to play my Games and feel that I'm really managing an Empire through Time and Obstacles. And I can't quite get that feeling with unmodded Civ VI, too much things that break Immersion, so I obviously have to make my own Mod(s) to achieve that Goal.

So yeah, I just want to play Games that I can enjoy from start to finish, which I can only achieve with this Mod, that's it.

I initially wanted to make a Total Overhaul Mod, but the Lack of DLL and Lua API for the Game made me think twice about this (and thrice with the Asset Limit Bug). I still want to do that, and I will do it at some Point, but I don't think that many Civ Players would play such an Overhaul Mod that will be incompatible with most Mods. So I decided to break the Concept of the Overhaul Mod in smaller Parts that can work on their own, but that also can be combined and that interact with each other. I wanted to keep this compatible with as many Mods as possible, because there are so many great Mods out there, that I really like playing with, that I don't want to sacrifice. And adding compatibility for each Single One would be too much Work that I'm not willing to do. So designing this Mod Series with Mod Compatibility and Modularity in Mind is a No Brainer.

Spoiler Special Thanks :

Zegangani · Sep 17, 2021

Pack 1:

The main Theme of the first Mod Pack, ~~which will be released in October~~, is "Extermination", but, like every other Mod Pack, it will tie in with other Aspects of the Game as well. Coming to Civilization VI is:

4Xpansion Pass - Pack 1: STAMPEDE

4Xpansion Pass - Pack 1: Stampede includes:

VASSALAGE: a Ressurection of the Civilization IV Mechanic. A (major) Civilization can become a Vassal of another (major Civ):

- if the first Civilization is at war with the second and capitulates (chances based on Cities losed to that Civilization and the Military Power difference between the two Civs - Some Leaders will have less likelyhood to agree being a Vassal to another Civ),
- if the first Civilization asks to become the second's Vassal for Protection (based on Fear, a New Diplomatic System that interprets the fear of a Civilization from another if it is Militarily and Economically more advanced and Powerful - Neighbours are more likely to do so),
- or if the second Civilization successfully convinces the first to become a Vassal (also based on Fear - again, Neighbours are more likely to accept than Civs far away from your Capital).

Vassals will follow their Master in Peace and War, and the Pros and Cons of Vassalization will be similar to how it was in Civ IV, but more significant (like Masters can demand more resources from their Vassals. And if the Master is willing to invest some Gold per Turn, the Vassal will keep a Luxury Resource but the Master will still get a copy of it, which will improve the relationship between the two Civs, but the Vassal will also stay as such for a longer period in which he won't demand Independence - Masters may levy Units of its Vassal (that are either Outside or Inside of the Vassal's Terrotiry. The Master may choose which, but he/she can only do so once in 10 Turns (normal Speed), number of turns may change based on Game Speed), which will have no Cost in Gold Maintenance, but Resource Maintenance (not if the Vassal owns the required Strategic Resource though) - Loyalty will also have some effect on the Master's Cities, especially if he/she has multiple Vassals at the same Time - The Vassal's Capital City will inherit the Master's Religion (if he/she has one)...etc). If the Master accepts Independency from its Vassal, he/she will get Favor Points. Conquering the Capital of a Civilization guarantees Vassalization of it, but the Conquerer may choose to have a Vassal or keep conquering its Cities.

~~Reworked Conquest Victory Condition: Conquer all Capital Cities, Vassalize every Civilization in the Game, or make everyone your Vassal that you haven't conquered its Capital yet.~~

~~MERCENARIES: Players might be able to hire Mercenaries from other Civilizations (Major or Minor) and Barbarians. Mercenaries cost Double in Maintenance:~~

- From major Civs: You can choose from any Unit that the Player is in control of (Units they have on the Map). You can't hire from Civs that are in a War with someone else or against you.
- From minor Civs: You can choose from any Unit that the CS is in control of. You can't hire from CSs that are in a War with someone else (including the war they join with their Suzerain) or against you. You can't hire from them if you have a bad relationship with their Suzerain.
- From Barbarians: You may hire from Barbarian Camps any Unit Type that most Civs have unlocked its Tech/Civic. Unique Units of Civs that aren't in the Game can be hired from Barbarians, but there are only one UU Type per Barbarian Camp (Ex: You may hire a Domrey Unit from one Barbarian Camp only). Number of Units that can be hired from Barbs is based on its Continent Size and Number of Cities and their Population on that Continent.

Each hired Mercenary is one more Unit under your control and One less for the Enemy.

The Mercenaries Mechanic won't be released with this 1st Pack but perhaps in one of the later Packs. Though, I will replace it with another Mechanic that is more needed and thematicaly still fits within this Pack.

DRAFT: Militia and Conscripts:

- Militia: if a City is under Attack, that is not protected by a Military Unit or if the Enemy's Units are more/stronger than your Units inside of that City, you will be able to draft Militia Units that help protecting the City and hit back the Enemy. Militia Units are weaker than regular Units but Cost no Maintenance. If you draft a Militia Unit the City will lose a Pop. Once the Enemy has been defeated or pushed back, the Militia Unit will automatically vanish and the City will get its Pop back (assuming the Militia Unit isn't defeated). You may also be able to turn Civilian Units into Militia Units (that can't be turned into Citizens once the Fight is over).
- Conscripts: if you are at war with someone, you will be able to levy Units from any of your Cities. These Levied Units cost Gold as well as Strategic Resources if they require it, and they also remove a Pop from the City. Once the war is over/Player isn't at war with anyone, all conscripted Units will return to their Cities and turn back into Citizens.

Only One Unit can be drafted per Turn (2 if City has an Encampment). Drafted Units have +1 Movement in your Territory. Number of Units that you can draft: 1 (only for Militia) + 1 per 5 Pop in a City + 1 if City has an Encampment District. Militia Units are always Land Units but you can have Conscripts that are Naval Units.

Militia Units aren't just important because they help defend a City, they also buy the Player Time that he/she needs to train/send the actual professional Units to defend that City.

ENSLAVEMENT:

There is a chance that defeated Units may turn into Slave Units, that can be used to build Non-Unique Improvements and rush Wonders. Captured Builder turn into Slaves as well. Slave Units have more Build Charges than regular Builder Units, but have less Movement Points (except if the Civ is Egypt). When a City revolts, if it has Slave Units in its Territory then all of them will turn into Hostile Units (except if the Civ is Egypt). The Player may be able to draft Slave Units from Occupied Cities (lossing Pops in those Cities - with severe effects on the relationship between the previous City Owner (-2 per Slave Unit with the Original Owner of the Unit(s))). Having Slaves in later Eras will have a negative modifier towards Relatioship with other Players that Don't use Slaves/Dislike Enslavement ( -1 per Slave Unit under your Control ).

LOOT:

- Conquering a Major Civ's City will grant the Player Gold that gets taken off from the conquered City's previous Owner (based on what Percentage of the City's Gold generation contributes to the Player's Treasury).
- When Barbarian Units pillage Tiles, they receive Gold that gets directly sent to their Camps. When a Player loots a barbarian Camp that stored some Gold, the Player will get a portion (1/4, 1/3 or 1/2) of that Gold.

MULTI UNIT MOVEMENT (MUM):

Human Players might be able to select a Unit and up to 6 Other Ones that they can move with the first selected Unit, with one single click. The additional Units will move with the first Unit and when they reach the destination Tile, they each move to an adjacent Tile of the primary selected Unit. (when selecting a Tile to move to, if the Player selected too much Units that can't all be moved to the adjacent Tiles (like blocked by Mountains), they will go to the next available Tiles).

Additional Features:

- Conquering a City will grant the Conqueror a Tech (if the City has a Campus) if he/she doesn't yet have that Technonology researched but the previous City Owner has. Randomly picked if the latter was many Techs ahead.
- Defeating Units that require a Strategic Resource has a chance for the Player to get some Amount of that Resource. (Ex: defeating a Horsemen Unit will grant the Player some Horses).
- Clearing Barbarian Camps and popping Goody Huts immediately reveals the surrounding Tiles of that Camp (Radius based on Era).***
- Tough Terrain: Units will get damaged when moving through trying Terrains/Features that they aren't acclimated to and suffer a healing penalty on those Tiles (reduced healing). Unit Adaptation to a certain Terrain/Feature is based on the City where they were built: City Center Terrain Type and prevalent Terrain/Feature Type in that City. (No more wandering in Desert and Snow with no Damage/Penalty to the Unit)

(***): could be much better if its actually all the Tiles that the Units of a Barbarian Camp have revealed, but I want to keep it Simple for Now, I'm already up to my Ears in all of this. Maybe in a later Update.

Zegangani · Sep 17, 2021

Placeholder

Zegangani · Sep 17, 2021

Placeholder

Irealys · Sep 18, 2021

How dare you steal my thunder like that?

Jokes aside, glad to see this! Couldn't be happier. Congrats on that project, good GOD that looks massive! And I'm saying this!

Can't wait to hear more as we go along. Also, I find it funny how this who slow trickle of steady release is mimicking normal TV and expansions are mimicking binge watching. Who would have thought that this is a difference people would disagree on.

But I digress. This is great and I can't wait to talk to you more about it. If I could like it multiple times I would. It might balance it out with all the people who don't seem to know such a button exist :crazyeye:

Sostratus · Sep 18, 2021

One thing that I will lay out as being extremely important is taking the time to balance the combat units.
It's almost thankless work because if you do it well, no one will notice they are so well balanced. That is what you want.

It's no secret that the way units are in the base game is not even close to balanced. Combat strength and production and resource use is all over the place. I'm just saying, put some work into this so that the units are balanced for your mod.
Unbalanced combat ruins the longevity of most 4X games, IMO - this causes the game to devolve into an economy and city simulator and messes with one of the main ways you interact with the world.

It's easy to tweak; just update the table. But a lot of people don't think about it. I do have some semi-successful mods on the workshop for stellaris, and I've gotten plenty of compliments over the years because my content seamlessly fits into the flow of the base game. In your case, you are changing some of the mechanics, so you'll want to make sure everything fits with that new vision, but you get the idea.

Duke William of Normandy · Sep 18, 2021

This is gonna be amazing, I can just feel it. Also, good luck on this project because my GOODNESS this is a lot of work for one man to do.

Buktu · Sep 18, 2021

I am looking forward to test your mods

I hope I can find the time to provide some feedback.

Zegangani · Sep 18, 2021

Irealys said:
How dare you steal my thunder like that?

Jokes aside, glad to see this! Couldn't be happier. Congrats on that project, good GOD that looks massive! And I'm saying this!

Can't wait to hear more as we go along. Also, I find it funny how this who slow trickle of steady release is mimicking normal TV and expansions are mimicking binge watching. Who would have thought that this is a difference people would disagree on.

But I digress. This is great and I can't wait to talk to you more about it. If I could like it multiple times I would. It might balance it out with all the people who don't seem to know such a button exist

Thank you very much Irealys! Feel free to share your Thoughts and Suggestions with me if you want, I would really appreciate that! (and I have to admit, I didn't get what you really meant with the first Sentence till I just saw the Thread pinned in your Signature :crazyeye:

)

Sostratus said:
One thing that I will lay out as being extremely important is taking the time to balance the combat units.
It's almost thankless work because if you do it well, no one will notice they are so well balanced. That is what you want.

It's no secret that the way units are in the base game is not even close to balanced. Combat strength and production and resource use is all over the place. I'm just saying, put some work into this so that the units are balanced for your mod.
Unbalanced combat ruins the longevity of most 4X games, IMO - this causes the game to devolve into an economy and city simulator and messes with one of the main ways you interact with the world.

It's easy to tweak; just update the table. But a lot of people don't think about it. I do have some semi-successful mods on the workshop for stellaris, and I've gotten plenty of compliments over the years because my content seamlessly fits into the flow of the base game. In your case, you are changing some of the mechanics, so you'll want to make sure everything fits with that new vision, but you get the idea.

You're completely right about that, and I totally agree with you.

I haven't thought much about Combat Unit Balance for this first Pack yet, as it's something that the Features in this Pack (especially Drafting and Mercenaries) will have some effects on anyway, so I wanted to wait till I have a ready Test Version which I can test to have a better Idea on how to balance the Combat Units. But Yes, it's One of the Objectives of this Mod.

I also want to change the Combat Strategy of Units, like Ranged Units having more range Strength when fighting from a Hill agains a flat Terrain and vice versa, but I don't know how that would affect the AI. It's worth some testing I guess.
The 3rd Pack will have same major Changes to Combat Unit production and maintenance, which will also affect Combat Unit Balance.
I have also thought about getting rid of the "Upgrading Units" System (also to leave the Option for the Player to build previous Units if he/she doesn't have (enough of) a Resource that the new Unit requires) and a revised Promotions System (maybe like technical Unit Upgrades unlocked with Techs as well as Experience), but I haven't settled on anything of that yet.

Anyway, Thanks for sharing your Thoughts with me!

Duke William of Normandy said:
This is gonna be amazing, I can just feel it. Also, good luck on this project because my GOODNESS this is a lot of work for one man to do.

Thanks a lot Duke William of Normandy!!
Indeed, it's a huge Amount of Work, but I already have the designs for the Features ready, and I also considered how to code all of that, so the most Time consuming for this will be the Tests. There are a lot of things packed in each Mod Pack, so testing every single one seperately as well as with other features will be a lot of Time spent just in Tests.

Buktu said:
I am looking forward to test your mods I hope I can find the time to provide some feedback.

The First Mod Pack will come in (probably late) October. But if you (or everyone else) want to get your hands on this earlier, I can send you a Beta Version of the Mod once it's ready. And I would really appreciate your Feedback! Thanks!

Laurana Kanan · Sep 18, 2021

Moderator Action: As the topic of this thread is focused on mod development, it has been moved to the main Creation & Customization forum.

Zegangani · Sep 18, 2021

Is it possible that I get a Sub Forum for this in the "Projects/Total Conversions" Forum? with "Zegangani's Civilization VI: 4Xpansion Pass [4XP]" as the Name. Thanks!

Irealys · Sep 18, 2021

Come join me in the unreleased mod subforums. A good old battle to know who has the more popular mod could sell PPVs (I watched way too much wrestling as a child but you get the idea right?)

Buktu · Sep 20, 2021

Zegangani said:
But if you (or everyone else) want to get your hands on this earlier, I can send you a Beta Version of the Mod once it's ready. And I would really appreciate your Feedback! Thanks!

Hit me up when the beta is ready

Zegangani · Sep 20, 2021

Buktu said:
Hit me up when the beta is ready

Ok, you're on the List of the VIP Testers

.
And thanks for your Interest in this Mod!

Knightfall · Sep 21, 2021

Looks like an interesting project; about time this one got a major overhaul mod. Keep it up!

Zegangani · Sep 21, 2021

Knightfall said:
Looks like an interesting project; about time this one got a major overhaul mod. Keep it up!

Thanks! I'm doing my best.

Amadhe · Sep 22, 2021

I very much like the ideas offered here, and would love to see them in a mod. However, I do have some feedback.

For now, I will simply stick to the first pack, but I do have some personal ideas regarding the overall goals of combining Religious and Culture Victories, Industrialization, Exploration, and the Tall-Wide Specialization.

For the first pack, I have the following suggestions, feel free to entirely disregard them, but I feel they might be worth your consideration.

Mercenaries:
-Perhaps Mercenaries can only be hired, if you have delegation or embassy from a Major Civ, and they are not at war with you.
-Have you considered renaming City-States to Nation-States, and allowing them Unique Units as well? It would distinguish them from Barbarians or Free Cities more, bu having numerous Cities under control of a Single "State".

Drafts:
-Militias should not be produced by Disloyal Cities
-Conscripts should be worse than actual Military Units.
-Have you considered allowing Builders to "Upgrade" into Militias and then "Upgrade" back into Builders? Perhaps this option would only be available if an enemy unit is nearby.
-Damaged Militia units returning to a City should increase War Weariness, since it is after all your literal population fighting for their homes, and then returning after a battle.

Attrition:
-For your idea on attrition, have you considered dealing damage in health percentages, like how the Zombie Defense Game-Mode Improvements deal damage? Perhaps unowned features could inflict such damage, and units are simply unable to heal outside of friendly territory without a certain promotion or a Supply Unit.
-Perhaps you could use the code from EpsTweak for Adaptation for granting Civilizations that spawn in high amounts of desert simple Adaptations to Desert and Tundra

Anyways it sounds amazing, I can't wait to see what the final product looks like.

This is Amadhe from Discord by the way.

Zegangani · Sep 22, 2021

Thank you Amadhe for this Feedback! You can share your Thoughts on anything relevant to this Mod Series whenever you want, it's still a WIP Mod, and will be that for a While.

Luminarch said:
-Perhaps Mercenaries can only be hired, if you have delegation or embassy from a Major Civ, and they are not at war with you.

You can not hire Mercenaries from Civs that you are at war with, and later in the Game, also not from Civs that are allied with someone you're at war with. But it's a good Idea to tie this Mechanism with Diplomacy by making it require a Delegation or Embassy from a Major Civ.

Luminarch said:
-Have you considered renaming City-States to Nation-States, and allowing them Unique Units as well? It would distinguish them from Barbarians or Free Cities more, bu having numerous Cities under control of a Single "State".

I actually have, Yes. Though it's something that will come with the last Packs. City-States will be much more dynamic and interacting, they may settle new Cities and with enough influence they may turn into major Civs.
About UU: I wanted to keep new Assets to add to the Game at the bare Minimum (also because there are too much CSs in the Game to make UU for), so I'll just make CSs have UUs of absent Civs/Leaders in the Game, so that a CS acts like a intermediary between these independent UUs and the Players that want to hire them. And to further distinguish between the CS Types, the UUs can only be hired from Military (for Land Mili Units) and Naval (for Naval Units) CSs.

Luminarch said:
-Militias should not be produced by Disloyal Cities

That's a good Idea! noted!

Luminarch said:
-Conscripts should be worse than actual Military Units.

They are (otherwise it would be too OP to have them).

Luminarch said:
-Have you considered allowing Builders to "Upgrade" into Militias and then "Upgrade" back into Builders? Perhaps this option would only be available if an enemy unit is nearby.

Yes, that's what I meant by "You may also be able to turn Civilian Units into Militia Units (that can't be turned into Citizens once the Fight is over)". I will change it to Builders instead of Civilians, because Mili Engeneers, Archeologits, and Great People... are a single person intety that wouldn't suffice for a Militia Unit. You can turn Builders into Militia if a City is being Attacked but it hasn't a Mili Unit that can defend it, or if the Enemy Units are much stronger than your defending Unit(s) and a defeat is inevitable.

Luminarch said:
-Damaged Militia units returning to a City should increase War Weariness, since it is after all your literal population fighting for their homes, and then returning after a battle.

There are Effects that I can use to change War Weariness and Grievances, but I have to test if I can make a requirement for the Object and the Subject (sometimes both count for the owner). It would be neat if it works!

Luminarch said:
-For your idea on attrition, have you considered dealing damage in health percentages, like how the Zombie Defense Game-Mode Improvements deal damage? Perhaps unowned features could inflict such damage, and units are simply unable to heal outside of friendly territory without a certain promotion or a Supply Unit.

That's the overall Idea for that. But at the same Time I don't want it to cripple the AI even more, because they sure wouldn't know about it like the Human Player would. I might perhaps make AI suffer less Damage than the Human Player, while also not allowing the damage to kill AI Units but Units of the Human Player only.

Luminarch said:
-Perhaps you could use the code from EpsTweak for Adaptation for granting Civilizations that spawn in high amounts of desert simple Adaptations to Desert and Tundra

I will take a closer look at the code of it, thanks for the Tip!

Those are all good Ideas and Suggestions of yours, feel free to share more of them

!

Lazy sweeper · Oct 26, 2021

Big Up Zegangani!!! True hero!!!

My Personal suggestion is... deity should be impossible to win for nearly everyone....
And cities should bare no HP at all... and see how the Ai responds to that...

Bravo!!!

4Xpansion Pass [4XP] Mod Series Announcement + Open Door for Ideas and Suggestions

What do you think of this?

That's exactly what I was waiting for!

Sounds interesting.

Nah, Mechanics aren't quite my thing, I'm just here for the Civilizations and Leaders.

King

King

King

King

King

Chieftain

Deity

King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

Prince

King

Don’t underestimate who I am.

King

Chieftain

Prince

King

Warlord

King

Emperor of Nothing

King

Warlord

Similar threads