-50% vs Domain?

[EsoEs]

So Im in an Emperor game in the late phases of the industrial, got backstabbed by a very weak Japan (Oda backstabbing, what else is new lol) so I cranked out a bunch of artillery to deal with his horde of levies as I thought they would cut right through them. Oddly, when I go to enter combat, I see that my artilleries are receiving something called a "-50% Domain" bonus to their strength, and my late industrial era units are tickling Oda's medieval vanguards, its a little wierd....

Edit: Could it be because we are fighting in what used to be his territory? I took 3 cities off him pretty early and thats where we are currently fighting..

Edit: The actualy name of the bonus is "-50% vs Domain"

 

[Atlas627]

They have the "siege" promotion, which gives them a penalty against units. Therefore Oda's units are within their "domain".

 

[EsoEs]

They have the "siege" promotion, which gives them a penalty against units. Therefore Oda's units are within their "domain".

doh >< thx!

 

[Thalassicus]

The word "domain" refers to the three realms of combat: land, air, and sea. Units with Demolish have a -50% penalty vs "land domain" units. This is significantly countered by a few promotions... artillery with 1 promotion and a Great General have 200% the strength of artillery with no bonuses (1 / 0.5 = 2).

 

[Bridger]

The word "domain" refers to the three realms of combat: land, air, and sea. Units with Demolish have a -50% penalty vs "land domain" units. This is significantly countered by a few promotions... artillery with 1 promotion and a Great General have 200% the strength of artillery with no bonuses (1 / 0.5 = 2).

I'm confused, why is 1 divided by the 50% penalty? 1 promotion gives +20% strength against clear or rough terrain, and great general gives +20%. Doesn't that mean that Siege is +40% with a promotion and a great general? Not 200%?

 

[Ahriman]

Terrain promotions have been tweaked in VEM, some give +25% benefit I think?
I thought the great general was still 20%, but I think Thal might have mis-remembered as 25%.

I think the point he is making is about the interaction of multiplier modifiers.

So for example:
Unmodified artillery = strength 32*(0.5) = 16 vs units.
Artillery with two 25% boosts = strength 32*(0.5 + 0.25 + 0.25) = 32 vs units.

And 32 is double 16.

So basically, a unit that is strength 32 with -50% penalty is much stronger than a unit that is strength 16, because % modifiers on the former are twice as valuable.

*edit*
So if there were two 20% modifiers, then the unmodified artillery would be 16 and the modified artillery would be 32*(0.5+0.2+0.2) = 28.8
Which would be 80% stronger than an unmodified artillery (28.8/16).

 

[Zaldron]

Terrain promotions have been tweaked in VEM, some give +25% benefit I think?
I thought the great general was still 20%, but I think Thal might have mis-remembered as 25%.

I think the point he is making is about the interaction of multiplier modifiers.

So for example:
Unmodified artillery = strength 32*(0.5) = 16 vs units.
Artillery with two 25% boosts = strength 32*(0.5 + 0.25 + 0.25) = 32 vs units.

And 32 is double 16.

So basically, a unit that is strength 32 with -50% penalty is much stronger than a unit that is strength 16, because % modifiers on the former are twice as valuable.

*edit*
So if there were two 20% modifiers, then the unmodified artillery would be 16 and the modified artillery would be 32*(0.5+0.2+0.2) = 28.8
Which would be 80% stronger than an unmodified artillery (28.8/16).

And just one further note Thal pointed out when I brought up artillery weakness a few weeks ago, for exactly the same reason a great general is rather more powerful (and needed) on artillery to help cancel out that penalty than it would be for normal melee/gunpowder units.

 

[Thalassicus]

I rounded to 50% because it's rare we have only a great general and 1 promotion. There's usually some other combat bonuses involved. I generally assume 50% of combat bonuses in average situations until the late game.