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52 shades of Sid - a story of deities

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Pedro78, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    Hi everyone :)

    I've been away from the forums for a while. Had very low motivation to play Civ4 for a long time, but the time has come for me to bring my contribution to these forums. So many people from here have helped me --especially AbsoluteZero who taught me the basics and Lain who gave me the motivation to play on Deity :hammer:. Therefore I want to give something back to CFC, which hopefully will be something useful.

    This year I'll have a fair amount of free time so I've got a crazy idea (not necessarily brillant :D)...

    :band:

    ----------THE PLAN----------

    >>> 52 civilizations :banana:


    >>> 52 detailed writeups :hmm:

    Spoiler Aaaand maybe :

    >>> 52 winning screens ? :viking:

    Spoiler :

    Maybe even more if some people join in !! :beer:



    :hammer2::hammer2::hammer2:
    ----------THE RULES----------

    >>> No reloads
    -- except for misclicks

    Spoiler :

    That one's really important to me as I tend to reload way too much in my games, which ruins all the fun, really.


    >>> No nukes :D

    Spoiler dude, really? :

    :ar15::ar15::ar15:


    >>> No AP wins :eek::eek::eek:

    Spoiler you sure? :

    Except when playing Asoka --- Civ is all about roleplay anyways, right? :old:


    :badcomp::badcomp::badcomp:
    ----------THE SETTINGS----------
    >>> DEITY >>>STANDARD >>> NORMAL SPEED >>> N.H.N.E.

    Spoiler first super useful tip :

    The latter means "no huts no events" :satan:

    Spoiler second mega useful tip :

    More precisely, this means that both the options "No Tribal Villages" and "No Random Events" are checked in the Custom game menu :thumbsup:



    :sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper:
    Pangaea - Hemispheres - Continents - Fractal - Inland Sea - Big and Small - Medium and Small - Terra
    Playing with BUG Mod (CustomAssets) and BUG dll (BULL). I can upload WB saves if anyone wants to play it with other mods, though.

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
    -----MISC-----
    Spoiler about me & deity games :

    I consider myself an average deity player, which means I feel confident in winning most games, but you most likely won't see many 1100AD conquest / 1600AD space wins.


    Any kind of feedback is greatly appreciated. Shadows are always welcome, even if you stop playing after turn 50 -- that's what I've always done :(. You can shadow even if you're not a deity player, it's a great way of learning the game!

    I'll try to make this thread as educational and entertaining as possible, blah blah blah this post is too long anyways :D

    :dance: --- ENOUGH WORDS, LET'S PLAY ! --- :dance:
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  2. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  3. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    So our first leader is Julius Caesar, and here's our start :
    Spoiler start :




    Spoiler Turn 0 demographics :




    I don't have a lot of experience with Terra maps. Never played one actually, and I haven't seen many on the forums since I'm around, nor did I see many JC games, hence this first choice.
    I find JC to be a lower tier leader on fractal maps, as his trait combo isn't great and UB/UU are situational at best. However on a Terra map IMP/ORG might really come in handy if you plan to mass-settle the new world.
    With this start we certainly can't complain about JC's starting techs either :)

    This is the third map I generated as I wanted an interesting start (fishing starts are always interesting imo)...
    Spoiler :

    The first two were river-corn + gold/ivory inland starts.


    Edit - thoughts on the start :
    Spoiler :

    I can't really think of anything better than SIP. If we were on a GH then settling on the cows would probably be a good move (Terra maps are cramped, need a quick start etc.). But we might also want to share the cows with a second city, so I see no reason to kill such a good tile, although we probably won't improve it for a while.

    The shape of the revealed land shows that we most likely have a very small area to the SE, and that SIP probably won't kill any fishies. So I'd say move the warrior 1NW to start exploring inland (that's certainly where you want to expand first). Depending on how much land we have / on the land's shape, GLH might be a good option here aswell.

    Re-edit : oh and there's definitely something on the tile 2S of the Settler, let's just hope it isn't oil or uranium :D


    I haven't started to play yet, will post the first turnset later tonight, hope it will be a fun/challenging map !
     

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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  4. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    Played 33 turns, some thinking needed and it's getting late around here. Shaping up to be a fun game.

    Spoiler Turn 33 - 2680 BC :

    Moved warrior 1NW, revealed crab 1S3W of starting position. Hesitated for 10sec and settled in place. Started on Bronze Working with Rome working the river cows while growing to size 2. Start on a Workboat.

    Spoiler Turn 1 and Turn 3 demographics :




    From the Land Area it looks like at least 2 AIs, but probably 3 started coastal. So GLH might be tricky. We also know that Mansa is not in the game, so no rush to meet him.

    Spoiler For those who aren't familiar with reading demographics :

    Land Area : 1 land tile = 1000, sea tiles don't count. On turn 1, <7 tiles = 99% coastal, 8 tiles = 50% - can be inland with a lake tile. On lower difficulties it's easier to judge when looking at T5 demographics as borders have popped, but on deity you can't tell because of the second city. However the T3 demographics can tell you whether there is a creative AI in the game (It's very rare that an AI has a second city on T3). This map has no creative AI on it - not very useful here :D

    Soldiers : 24k is an AI without mining, 26k is an AI with mining, 28k is Hammurabi and 30k is Mansa (on T1)

    Approval rate : 85% is a CHA leader, 83% is a non-CHA leader


    On turn 5 we meet a cool dude -
    Spoiler :




    Certainly isn't too close, we have some breathing room :crazyeye:
    Spoiler :




    The perfect neighbour, really. Always neglects expansion and doesen't build any units. His second city being on a hill makes him even easier a target :lol:
    Well what am I complaining about, could be Monty... Monty at this distance would be deadly :eek:

    Spoiler Turn 8 overview :



    See that super hot dry wheat? it's unreachable by land :rolleyes:


    On turn 8 I'm like "chill out we've got some juicy land to settle, Justy is np [pimp]". Unless you take a closer look :
    Spoiler closer look :



    Our super useful T3 demographics tell us it's not Catherine :banana:


    Meanwhile in the fascinating world of fishing starts...
    Spoiler :



    Notice how working the GHF for 1 turn allows for a 1 turn quicker workboat :




    We get the slightly better one of the Russian dudes -
    Spoiler :



    Next turn reveals his second city...



    Looks pretty hot, on a flatland aswell... HAs would be nice :crazyeye:


    EPs on Justy, I want to watch what he's doing if I want to attack him. Even long term it's good because he's easy to get to friendly.
    Justy founds Buddhism... border pressure... :sniper:
    At least barbs won't be a problem.

    On turn 15, Bronze Working reveals absolutely nothing.

    We don't need the Wheel or Pottery or Sailing this early. We have so little space that GLH is out of the question, so I decide to go Agriculture - AH. I thought hunting would do us little good - we can see jumbos far away to the West, but they're just too far away.

    Worker is done on turn 19 and starts chopping the 3 riverside forests, we'll need those riverside cottages fairly early if we want to attack these jokers, and we need hammers for more workboats + settlers.

    On T22 this happens :
    Spoiler :



    That's really good as this barb warrior will do the fogbusting for me, and by the time he comes in I'll have a warrior in Rome, he won't smash anything as I don't have any improvements in this area. Therefore I start on a third workboat instead of a warrior in Rome, times well with growing to size 4 aswell.

    My scouting warrior didn't make any bad encounters and is fogbusting the north atm. Decent RNG till now.


    Spoiler happy borders :



    If I settle here, Justy and I ain't gonna be friends for sure :D


    I revolt to slavery while the workboat travels. Now Justy and Peter have both already settled their third city and stole neither the crab nor the sheep. Gives me some breathing room so I delay the settler one turn :
    Spoiler :



    Puts me closer to the next population point, which means less time growing back 2-3 not working the clam later on. And times better with AH discovery so I can change my settling plans if I find horses.


    Turn 33 AH :band:
    Spoiler :



    No horses... Things are becoming interesting. The second settler comes in 3 turns, will probably try and grab these elephants. That's an ugly move but it's probably the safest bet if want to take out someone later. If I can secure the Jumbos the game should be in a decent position.


    Will probably adopt Buddhism ASAP to counter the border issue. Getting Justy to pleased should be a priority in this case, right?
    Not sure what to tech next, many benefits in Sailing - will likely save me some roading into Justy ,cheap lighthouses are sexy, working coast will get me to Construction fast enough. Will be at least 4 cities, maybe 5 if I can get the Jumbos.
    If no Jumbos I hopefully have iron in the BFC, might go for some Praetorian fun (with cats ofc) :ar15:
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  5. petersc

    petersc Chieftain

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    Spoiler QUESTION :
    Can you provide reasoning for this, for those of us who don't know?
     
  6. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    Spoiler Answer :
    When a single tile is unforested and surrounded by forests like that, it is highly likely that it has a hidden resource on it that will be revealed by a tech.
     
  7. rah

    rah Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    Yeah, with no FPs and only three resources, I'd anticipate one there. I'll bet horses.
     
    Zatman and blitzkrieg1980 like this.
  8. Rusten

    Rusten Chieftain

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    The early phase on Terra can be very tricky on deity. It has even less space than a pangea and you can find yourself completely boxed in.
    I remember having to DoW with chariots in a SG (Taxman) I played on Terra because we started on a peninsula without metal. For your sake I hope it doesn't come to that and that you have iron (or can secure ivory).
     
  9. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    To OP regarding microing citizens,
    Spoiler :
    How did you get that worker on turn 17? On turn 8, you grew to size 2 allowing a turn 10 workboat. With 2 citizens, max production for a worker with current tiles and non-exp leader is 7 per turn. And you couldn't have rushed it bc you switched into slavery later and couldn't chop bc no worker yet. This means you couldn't have gotten that worker until turn 19 unless I'm missing something very obvious. In order to hit turn 17 worker here, you'd need 9 prod per turn, no?
     
  10. sampsa

    sampsa The Czar

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    @blitzkrieg1980
    Spoiler :
    Pretty sure you are correct, worker was out T19. Turn 22 screenshot gives a hint: what has the worker done so far? Moved into forest, chopped for 3 turns. This matches with worker out T19.
     
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  11. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    Ah good catch. Thanks man
     
  12. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    Spoiler Suggestions :

    Techs
    1. AH for cow reveal horses
    2. Wheel -> 3. Pottery for granary, cottage
    4. Writing
    5. Maths
    5.1 a few turns of Alpha
    6. Masonry -> 7. Construction

    Trade maths for Alpha and then Alpha for IW, Sailing, and Masonry to eliminate self teching #6 above.

    If we could be sure that iron is 2S, you could ignore elephants and just go with praets/cats. 4 cities is enough to war with Praetapults (tm) and no need for HBR and stables. But iron is not guaranteed so it's a risk reward assessment. I think that unless your 2nd city grabs the phants, you're likely to lose them. This introduces maintenance penalty for distance and worker turns devoted to roading otherwise even heftier drain on economy and teching for lacking trade route in that city. This is where the better deity players' inputs are needed! Lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  13. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    Spoiler worker thing :

    Yup worker on turn 19, I'll edit that


    @Rusten
    Why didn't you wait for HAs? I only consider attacking with chariots if the target doesen't have metals and cities not on hills (except if it's Gandhi ofc). I can only figure very few scenarios where I'd go with chariots over HAs, do you have a link to the game you were talking about?

    @blitzkrieg1980 Thanks for your suggestions !
    Spoiler :

    With a lot of coast and an ORG leader, going Sailing is tempting, but I'll have riverside cottages here so it's probably not required, plus no GLH here. Probably something like wheel-pott-writing. Then either HBR or maths. Maybe tech Hunting in between... it all depends on the Jumbos.

    Settling the elephants (if possible) is definitely the safest move here. Nothing guarantees me that I have iron, and even then Jumbos are far superior to Praets, especially when the AI gets Xbows. I'm not worried about maintenance, this city will remain small so the cost difference will only be 1 or 2 gpt in the early game. The biggest issue I see here is that it might make me a landtarget to Peter very early, which I don't want. I won't road into it for a while, not worth the worker turns early on.
     
  14. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    Always glad to talk shop with stronger deity players. It's what got me to deity in the first place.
    Spoiler :
    Yeah getting the phants is a better play. Too much hinges on having iron on that tile. Good call on the forward thinking wrt xbows, too. That tile could very well be horses, too. Which means if you miss out on phants city, you could do your planned tech path and pull off a HA rush on whoever claims the phants. Then cataphant rush the other and you're in a winning position if executed well.

    I'll be watching this one.

    Also, great idea on starting this series. I think I'll shadow the next one. I already know too much about this one.
     
  15. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    @blitzkrieg1980 I'll sure be glad if you shadow some of these games :)
    Spoiler :

    That tile isn't horses, I've reached AH in the last post :D
     
  16. Rusten

    Rusten Chieftain

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    Couldn't tech HBR due to game variant (no research slider). Otherwise HAs are much better of course, so you're right for asking.

    That particular game was on immortal, but that didn't stop the AIs from giving us very little space. Seems most of the screenshots are gone now though (curse you photobucket!).
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/cause-im-the-taxman.340580/
     
  17. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    Oh yeah I remember that game, started reading the thread a while ago, but stopped when I realized that the screenshots were gone. The concept sounded fun though
     
  18. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    Played a bit to turn 50 -

    Spoiler Turn 50 - 2000 BC :


    I decide to tech Wheel - Pottery - Writing


    Turn 34 Antium is settled. Starts on a worker - nothing else to build and I'll need some workers soon, especially if I go for the Jumbos.
    Spoiler sad Justy :



    It was close... Now I have to worry (more) about him stealing my Jumbos. Or is it rather his Jumbos that I plan to steal? :satan:


    On turn 36 Rome finishes Settler as expected. Scouting out the Jumbos...
    Spoiler :



    A wounded barb Archer... I decide to keep moving, staying close to Byzantine borders. Could settle on the "x?", but this would be very bad for the relations with Russia.



    Justinian's settler party is getting closer, but so is my settler. Oh and he's got horses, which is far from being a bad thing if I can secure the elephants. Next turn my warrior moves into the forest and...



    Let's hope he attacks here, I have very good odds and I don't want him to slow my settler down.
    Spoiler outcome :


    Well... can't complain about Justinian's unitprob (yet :D)



    I decide to try and get that cows+ivory spot, much better than fp and will avoid border pressure with Peter. But before moving the settler I move the warrior 1W and -
    Spoiler :


    See that hill 1N2W of the cows? I bet that's where he's going, AIs like to do that. So I move the settler on the Ivory.


    On turn 40 the Jumbos are mine :dance:
    Spoiler :



    See where Justy was going? ^^
    I decide to leave that warrior fortified in Cumae in case that stupid barb Archer decides to come back and attack me. For those of you who don't know, on deity your units do all get +25% "city barbarian defense" bonus so my warrior will actually have winning odds against the Archer when fortified :thumbsup:


    On turn 40 Cumae starts on a worker. When it's done it will probably grow to size 2 on a granary and then build a settler (cows + ivory are great tiles for an IMP leader).
    Rome finishes a warrior which heads south to kill that barb warrior (remember?) and then fogbust. Will 2whip another settler at size 4.

    Justinian has caught up on EPs (was at +6 on me for a moment), so I won't see what he's teching for a while.

    On turn 41 I can't see Justy's settler anymore. Worker comes back from Antium's Sheep to improve Rome's cows and get ready for some roading/cottaging.

    Now what happened to our barb warrior to the SE?
    Spoiler the barb who had a plan :

    Here he is...



    I peacefully wait for him to suicide :sniper:
    ........but this jerk had different plans -



    So I move my guy 1NE for a 91% fight, might have to emergency whip a warrior, what a pain in the ass :rolleyes:...
    Spoiler :

    Not even a scratch :banana:




    Now in the previous screenshots you can see that I could have started on a settler 2 turns earlier, but in this case it was much better to wait these 2 turns -
    Spoiler why? :


    First reason is I whipped 4-2 with 25 food stored in the food bin which means...


    Instant regrowth to size 3, even though the city is still technically building a settler :thumbsup:

    In this case, delaying the city 2 turns also allows to finish the pasture and 2 roads in time (2nd worker coming for Antium) :)


    Meanwhile I send the warrior that was fortified in Cumae exploring, as we're now completely surrounded -
    Spoiler lonely warrior's adventures :


    Could have sent him one or 2 turns earlier but I forgot. Not a big deal as it eventually timed well with Justy building roads for me to move faster ^^. Oh and no worker stealing here :hammer2:

    But all the sudden our guy has a feeling of déjà-vu -

    :D

    More seriously, I just fortify and let him attack me, which he does and dies (for the second time? :eek:)


    Back to the wonderful Rome suburbs -
    Spoiler :

    After the settler is done, Rome builds a warrior for MP, starts on a wb (for city #4) and will 2whip a granary at size 5. On T48 city #4 is settled and connected, it takes the cows from Rome and starts on a granary.
    Workers start cottaging so we have some good tiles to grow on. Will also build a cottage 2S of Antium after Rome's second border pop.

    Our victorious unscratched warrior goes on a mission to reveal the rest of our wonderfully rich peninsula -


    I'll settle a city 3S of Rome later, only has to get Gran (+ LH) + Barracks in time for Construction.


    One (really) dumb mistake so far -
    Spoiler :

    A barb could have spawned here (and can still spawn here), and I didnt even notice :wallbash:


    Let's just hope it doesen't happen :D


    Anyways, now it's 2000BC, writing in 4-5 turns then probably hunting for the ivory (want the extra happiness in Rome), or maybe I'll just farm that tile and wait until Alpha... Rome can share tiles with Neapolis while running scientists. Don't know what I'll do with the GS, maybe an Academy in Rome as it's a good spot, maybe save for later... No reason to bulb maths here.

    Justinian built Stonehenge -- not really good for me, not sure how city flipping works. Does Neapolis being in Rome's 3rd ring make it less likely to flip to the Byzantine?

    I still have to meet the other 4 AIs, the map must be weirdly shaped...

    If I don't get attacked early the game should be in a decent position.


    I realize I'm playing really slowly here, I'll speed it up in the next turnsets, will post less details about micro as it'll become less crucial. Attached the turn 50 save if anyone feels like taking a look :goodjob:
     

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  19. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    T50 (2000 BC)

    Spoiler :


    SIP and started on BW. Micro to get the workboat one turn quicker



    Worker finished on T19, chops into settler while growing on warrior. Going to AH via Hunting, because I see no need for Agriculture. Hoping for HA rush on Justinian. Note his culture in the west already...





    At size 3 I finish my first settler with another chop and 1-2 turns of working hammers. Very conservative with my exploration so far, but I want to grab the sheep and block land for sure. Also, horses are nowhere to be seen... so at this point I'm thinking some kind of Construction rush with Praets (hopefully). But who knows if I have iron..



    Next settler is whipped at size 4. Improving cows for 3rd city.



    ... which goes right there, with crabs in 2nd ring. Why? Instant trade connection without roads between all cities. And less border tensions with Justi later. Losing 1 food on the crabs, but who cares.



    Meanwhile I found jumbos, so rushing a settler and even 1-pop-whipping it to grab this. After The Wheel I flicked in Mysticism (need quick border pop to secure jumbos and some culture... Justi has a holy city, stonehenge etc.. bit afraid of losing all my tiles.



    Workboat will arrive in time to improve crabs when capital pops borders (100 culture)



    Founded 4th city @ jumbos, going for Pottery -> Writing next. Open Borders with Justi already, will send out a warrior to scout and then make a tech choice, depending on who I meet. Probably Horseback Riding, trade that for Alpha etc and then beeline Construction? Jumbos are not needed with Praets, but who knows if we have iron.



     
  20. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    @Lain thanks for playing ! I'll read your writeup after playing a little further, things can be a little spoilerish this early.
     

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