Warning!!! Looong Post Follows... There is a lot to address. To stay on topic I moved some of this from tactics thread.
we are not in any urgency to have metal IMO.
It is very unlikely that anyone will have send units to attack us...but even if they did...
What are they going to attack us with? Even if they send 4 spears (which noone has atm) we can take care of them with warriors...
First off... Smoke maybe YOU are not "in any urgency" to get metal but several of us on the team are. I for one want metal right away. What, in your opinion, is a situation that would make us "in urgency" to get metal? A stack of barbarian Spearmen at our Border? Its too late then.
And you think that we have enough military to defeat 4 Spears?
I ran a few tests where I stacked 3 Warriors and 3 Chariots and attacked 4 Spears. Guess what happened... If we get attacked by 4 Spears with no metal it's GG.
I have run some limited tests...hopefully will have more time today..
Some key points IMO.
going for iron city first, seriously stretches our workers and our defences. We need to improve cow in horse city straight after farming the flood, so 1 worker will have to go there.
Also gold city has the irrigated corn for fast developement...
We are also capable of producing 4-5 chariots very fast and should not be afraid of enemy invasion for a while IMO.
6th city will be be made straight after (about 10-12 turns later), so 10-12 turns without iron we can live with IMO.
Some other points
capital needs to run 1 scientist this turn to get the academy, while keeping research to 0% for another 2 turns.
Pavlodar could be slaved as kaleb suggested....not sure though, have to test that.
Capital is too slow growing to size 8, so should produce worker and then settler in size 7 IMO (i.e forget granary for a while). We could use 1 chop (cottage build) to finish granary and overflow to great library.
Actau, becomes a fantastic city with all 3 food resources improved!! The build order I used was slave settler ASAP, overflow to chariot, finish chariot growing to size 3, worker, slave for 1 pop, grow with chariot to size 4, settler for 2 pop.
We could go straight settler though by growing to size 4 and whipping for 2 pop...if we want iron city online faster.
Horse city is also a great city with flood farm cow and horse!! It pumps out chariots very fast...we should do that IMO and spread some in the map to have adavnce notice of enemy movements.
Corn gold city, I used improved corn and cottaged flood to whip from size 3-4 down to size 2 to produce granary, monument etc...very very fast!! Should not be missed IMO...I would use just cottages and corn in this city and whip for production for a while, before working any hills. The food surplus is great.
Regarding tech...I feel that we can go monotheism after aesthetics (or even before/midway) if we have masonry, to make sure we can addopt organized in time for great library and building some missionaries in Pavlodar...
Thats it, I encourage people to try the save...we are looking very very good!!!
I have also run some limited tests (See Attached Screenshots)...I however, will NOT have more time today, testing is very time consuming, which is why I am against making it a prerequisite for posting suggestions. Some key points...
Going for iron city first, does not hamper our workers and our defences. The reason to get Iron City first is because we need to pop the borders to get the Iron, but we do not need to pop the Gold city border to get the Gold or the Corn. Building the Iron City First and using the missionary with it will mean that we get those borders popped faster. We can work the forest for hammers and then slave a workboat to get the fish faster.
Also since Gold city has the corn near water, there is even less of a rush/strain on workers, because the corn does not need a road.
Since we are capable of producing 4-5 chariots very fast and should not be too afraid of enemy invasion for a little while, we don't need to be worried at all about building a city that is not connected to the border yet. Also, once we build the Gold city a few turns later, the "border popped" Iron city will be connected to our borders.
6th (Gold) city will be be made straight after. In my tests we got Iron city on turn 82(825BC) and Gold City 5 turns later (700BC), so we can live without Gold for a few turns IMO. See Attached Screenshots.
Some other points...
Pavlodar should not be slaved.
Capital should produce a settler once it gets to size 7 produce granary until then. When the first settler is done there should only be 1 turn left on Granary (as long as running a scientist does not take away a production square.) After the Granary make/slave workers
Test versions not subjective! They are a good way of actually showing a vision for the future.
Ok fair enough
... Tests are
objective, in the sense that the game will generally react the same way if different players take the same actions. When I say tests are "subjective," what I mean, is that the results of the testing can be skewed and presented to fit the impression that the particular player wants. For an example of this read the second Smokey quote, then read my response... very similar, in fact I am sure we took alot of the same actions in the Sim. But my analysis is worded to suit what I want (Iron) and Smoke's analysis is tailored to get Gold.
Also, tests are subjective because there are a million different variables and actions that anyone can take that will influence test results (as I am sure you and Smoke will point out in response to this post) and there is no way to be sure that everyone takes exactly the same actions.
Let me be clear: I am not saying that any time someone makes a suggestion they have to back it up with a test sim. But every key proposal should be tested.
What do you define as "key" proposals? It seems to me that "key" proposals means anytime there are a bunch of team members who disagree with what
wants to do it becomes a "key" proposal and requires "testing." And if you dont have time or knowledge to "test," then you can't offer an opinion. Is that what you mean?
It's not a rule that each individual has to do the test, but if we are looking at an important decision, like where to found a city, then that is the sort of thing that must be tested before a decision is made.
To quote Willy Wonka "WRONG!!! sir, WRONG!!!" We build cities, fight wars, sign treaties, move scouts, and work tiles, based on
WHAT THE TEAM WANTS, Not based on what "test" results show. If the team voted for example to build the horrible NE fish city (good heavens, please no) we would build it, because this is a Democracy Game.
We do what the majority of the team wants, not what
thinks is best. Test results are not required to take action, all that is required is a majority... period. The ONLY time
gets to decide what is best is when there is silence on the issue... because as we ALL know. Silence Means Consent. There is not silence on this issue so
does not get to decide what is best.
has to do what majority wants.
What you seem to be suggesting is that
decides what is best, and if you want to do something different you have to convince
that your way is better through "testing." That is exactly wrong. If majority is leaning towards a particular action and
disagrees, then
must convince the majority... either through "testing" or through flowery prose to change their mind. If
cant get the majority to change their mind by the time we vote/take action, then we do what
did not want.
So sad for
, but that is how Democracy works.
It was never suggested that this proved Confu would found in Oskemen. I raised it as a concern when it happened repeatedly in my tests but wee realised as a result that this was simply a case of the RNG not 'refreshing' from reloading the game. If you shut down Civ completely and restarted you got a different result. In many of my test version Confu did found in Pavlodar and in Aktau as well.
So you admit that your "testing" was faulty... Hmmm. Exactly my point. You were convincing the team that we should wait to build Oskemen based on faulty tests... That is why testing is for information purposes ONLY and not a requirement.