Counter proposal to:
Proposal:
The current system works by balancing more sight against faster movement. It only does so after the first promotion, and neglects the fact that forests and jungles have hills, negating the XP reduction significantly by "catching up" all those tile reveals trivially. It also implies that you should always be revealing forests/jungles first if able, so that when you get to desert and snow you'll have picked up TB 2 and can cover twice the ground. If your initial area is heavily desert and plains, then by the time you pick up TB 2, that exploration phase is over, and you are finally able to make use of x2 in trees, while your second promotion does basically nothing.
Besides this point, there is also the matter of recon units owing much of their survivability to ignoring ZOC. Gating this behind one promotion line and denying it from the other should not be the case. There are certainly alternate ways to achieve this (you could add it to Survivalism 2, for instance, so that it's redundant on each path), but I chose the way that keeps an element of danger in the recon game until Classical. The current system removes danger as a concern for recon after the first or second promotion. There may be a case for moving the +1 Movement to Scouting 1, but I think the first step of equalizing the unit speed in early game terrains is worth the change in scouting meta.
This proposal retains the x2 movement for specialized terrains to keep the unit fun to play. By limiting the terrains to more expensive promotion levels (level 5+), each choice becomes more meaningful.
Note:
"Embarkation" without Fishing becomes a T4 promotion, instead of T3. This changes how accessible coastal islands will be to recon units, and puts more of a premium on the Fishing tech.
"Ignore ZOC" likewise shifts from being gated by XP to being gated by tech/upgrade ruins, coming online with Scouts at Sailing. Pathfinders should be expected to either use Survivalism to tank barbarians or Scouting to see and avoid them, since TBII will no longer be available to slip between them, and the movement disparity cannot be relied on as readily.
Database Changes & Potential Promotion Icon Changes
[Vote] - (6-42) Recon Unit Line Reworks
VP Congress: Session 6, Proposal 42 Discussion Thread: (6-42) Recon Unit Line: Trailblazer Now Affects Base Terrain Proposer: @DoveCDog Sponsor(s): @Recursive Proposal Details Problem: Currently upgraded scouts move faster through forest than through plains. This is frustrating and immersion...
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Proposal:
- Keep "Ignore Terrain Costs"
- This is a keystone ability of recon, and what differentiates them from other unit lines.
- Scouting (along with Survivalism) becomes the second stem promotion line:
- Scouting 1 (no prereq): +1 Sight, +10% CS outside of friendly territory.
- Scouting 2 (req Scouting 1): +1 Movement.
- Scouting 3 (req Scouting 2): +1 Sight, +10% CS outside of friendly territory.
- Add Trailblazer 1-3 as leaf promotions, and renamed to highlight they are the same tier, not sequential:
Trailblazer 1Trailblazer (req Scouting 3 or Survivalism 3): Double movement in forests and jungles. +10% CS outside of friendly territory.Trailblazer 2Wayfarer (req Scouting 3 or Survivalism 3): Double movement in deserts and snow. +10% CS outside of friendly territory.Ignore ZOC.Trailblazer 3Voyager (req Scouting 3 or Survivalism 3): Allows embarkation. Allows crossing mountains. Able to use enemy roads. +10% CS outside of friendly territory.- Allows Survivalism scouts to also pivot into having a favored terrain, but not necessarily all of them.
- (Existing leaves:
- Medic I: prereq changed from Trailblazer II to Scouting II.
- Screening: prereq changed from Trailblazer II to Scouting II.
- Frogman: prereq changed from Trailblazer II to Scouting II.)
- Add "Ignore ZOC" to Scout and all descendants
- Locking this behind Trailblazer II added unnecessary disparity between the promotion lines for recon units.
- Being able to rely on this trait for balancing purposes is a net positive.
The current system works by balancing more sight against faster movement. It only does so after the first promotion, and neglects the fact that forests and jungles have hills, negating the XP reduction significantly by "catching up" all those tile reveals trivially. It also implies that you should always be revealing forests/jungles first if able, so that when you get to desert and snow you'll have picked up TB 2 and can cover twice the ground. If your initial area is heavily desert and plains, then by the time you pick up TB 2, that exploration phase is over, and you are finally able to make use of x2 in trees, while your second promotion does basically nothing.
Besides this point, there is also the matter of recon units owing much of their survivability to ignoring ZOC. Gating this behind one promotion line and denying it from the other should not be the case. There are certainly alternate ways to achieve this (you could add it to Survivalism 2, for instance, so that it's redundant on each path), but I chose the way that keeps an element of danger in the recon game until Classical. The current system removes danger as a concern for recon after the first or second promotion. There may be a case for moving the +1 Movement to Scouting 1, but I think the first step of equalizing the unit speed in early game terrains is worth the change in scouting meta.
This proposal retains the x2 movement for specialized terrains to keep the unit fun to play. By limiting the terrains to more expensive promotion levels (level 5+), each choice becomes more meaningful.
Note:
"Embarkation" without Fishing becomes a T4 promotion, instead of T3. This changes how accessible coastal islands will be to recon units, and puts more of a premium on the Fishing tech.
"Ignore ZOC" likewise shifts from being gated by XP to being gated by tech/upgrade ruins, coming online with Scouts at Sailing. Pathfinders should be expected to either use Survivalism to tank barbarians or Scouting to see and avoid them, since TBII will no longer be available to slip between them, and the movement disparity cannot be relied on as readily.
Database Changes & Potential Promotion Icon Changes
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