(6-55a) Rename Ideologies, Authority Tree and Liberty Policy

[Recursive]

How about making each ideology represent a core and distinct political value ?

Freedom : unchanged for political and economical liberalism

Equality : instead of 'Order' to better represent what socialists and communists tried to pursue in the first place

Authority : instead of 'Autocracy' as detailed in the proposal

'Honor' could be put back in the policy tree instead of 'Authority'. 'Militia' could replace 'Honor' in the policy tree.

Freedom and Equality as words aren't used the same way by the different ideological groups. By comparison, though, Liberty is more clearly defined and representative of the ideals of the group currently defined as "Freedom" in-game, or, at least, less employed by the other group. Progress used to be called "Liberty" before, though, so I don't see much point in changing Freedom's name.

The main distinction I can think of Order relative to the other two is that this ideology was by far the most vocal about revoking the use of money, and the one that actually tried to implement that. I'm not sure of a word that can captures it alongside an ideal. Maybe "Equity"? It's a word that has been defended recently by its modern equivalent group, sometimes as a replacement for Equality, and resembles Marx's "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" motto.

I've considered naming Autocracy as "Statism" or "Totalitarianism", since this was the only ideology that didn't aim for, nor theorized, an eventual reduction or disappearance of the State. Rather, they defended its growth over the nation as much as possible, as stated by Mussolini: "Everything in the State, Nothing outside the State, Nothing Against the State!".

No complaints about Honor and Militia, I like the approach.

Combination proposal based on the feedback of several forumgoers.

Liberty: instead of 'Freedom' to represent political and economic liberalism. It is true that this is the vanilla name for Progress, but VP is such a different game from vanilla that it'll probably be fine.

Equity: instead of 'Order'. Unlike Equality, it has less overlap with the social equality espoused by political liberalism.

Authority: instead of 'Autocracy', as per the proposal.

Might: instead of 'Authority'. It's better representative of what Authority civs do, and is more akin to "Tradition" and "Progress" as an ancient society's overarching value than "Authority" is. It also doesn't require any change to the Honor policy.

Liberty (Progress policy): Reverted to its BNW name and Civilopedia entry, "Citizenship".

Counterproposal to (6-67) Rename the Autocracy Ideology to Might.

AMENDMENT 1: Changed from Freedom / Equality / Autocracy / Honor to Liberty / Equity / Authority / Might.
AMENDMENT 2: Liberty policy is reverted to Citizenship.

Database Changes Required

 

[Diomedes_]

I think Order is still a better name than Equality. For one, to my American ears Equality sounds too similar to Freedom. Otherwise, if we want to get historical, then I think its pretty fair to say that Order in the current build of the game does not represent Leninism, Spartacism, or any of the early socialist movements that stressed equality, but instead represents Stalinism and Maoism, which were much more focused on societal regimentation and productive capacity, i.e. Order.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

I think Order is still a better name than Equality. For one, to my American ears Equality sounds too similar to Freedom. Otherwise, if we want to get historical, then I think its pretty fair to say that Order in the current build of the game does not represent Leninism, Spartacism, or any of the early socialist movements that stressed equality, but instead represents Stalinism and Maoism, which were much more focused on societal regimentation and productive capacity, i.e. Order.

I have to agree. The names of the tenets and what the ideology actually manifested into in reality is really not what you imagine when you hear equality.

Plus equality is such a cornerstone, building-block for freedom, it's way too overlapping.

 

[Rekk]

"Militia" needs a Civilopedia entry.

 

[Legen]

Freedom and Equality as words aren't used the same way by the different ideological groups. By comparison, though, Liberty is more clearly defined and representative of the ideals of the group currently defined as "Freedom" in-game, or, at least, less employed by the other group. Progress used to be called "Liberty" before, though, so I don't see much point in changing Freedom's name.

The main distinction I can think of Order relative to the other two is that this ideology was by far the most vocal about revoking the use of money, and the one that actually tried to implement that. I'm not sure of a word that can captures it alongside an ideal. Maybe "Equity"? It's a word that has been defended recently by its modern equivalent group, sometimes as a replacement for Equality, and resembles Marx's "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" motto.

I've considered naming Autocracy as "Statism" or "Totalitarianism", since this was the only ideology that didn't aim for, nor theorized, an eventual reduction or disappearance of the State. Rather, they defended its growth over the nation as much as possible, as stated by Mussolini: "Everything in the State, Nothing outside the State, Nothing Against the State!".

No complaints about Honor and Militia, I like the approach.

 

[Diomedes_]

I mean I would also happily just dispense any attempts to generalize or mollify the ideologies and instead just name them for what they are, i.e. "Capitalism," "Communism," and "Fascism."

 

[Recursive]

I mean I would also happily just dispense any attempts to generalize or mollify the ideologies and instead just name them for what they are, i.e. "Capitalism," "Communism," and "Fascism."

I like the idea, but two of those are economic systems, not ideologies. Admittedly, there is a lot of overlap.

PROPOSAL AMENDED based on the feedback in this thread and the other one.

Combination proposal based on the feedback of several forumgoers.

Liberty: instead of 'Freedom' to represent political and economic liberalism. It is true that this is the vanilla name for Progress, but VP is such a different game from vanilla that it'll probably be fine.

Equity: instead of 'Order'. Unlike Equality, it has less overlap with the social equality espoused by political liberalism.

Authority: instead of 'Autocracy', as per the proposal.

Might: instead of 'Authority'. It's better representative of what Authority civs do, and is more akin to "Tradition" and "Progress" as an ancient society's overarching value than "Authority" is. It also doesn't require any change to the Honor policy.

 

[azum4roll]

What about the Liberty policy?

 

[Recursive]

What about the Liberty policy?

AMENDMENT: The Liberty policy in Progress is reverted to its vanilla name and Civilopedia entry, "Citizenship".

 

[Recursive]

Sponsored.

 

[Hinin]

MAGI - This threa has been locked. To continue the discussion during the poll phase, please go to the thread (6-67).

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.