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6 Most Frustrating Leaders to Play Against

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by LegioCorvus, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    My experience with Shaka is that if he is successful with an early war, he's much more likely to maintain it than Tokugawa or Montezuma because he is willing to trade with other civs.
     
  2. sherbz

    sherbz Emperor

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    gilamesh: Has a good combi of creative and protective, which tends to suit the AI playing style. Good techer and is dangerous in war. One annoying neighbour.

    Sitting bull: Being boxed in by this guy is a pain. He's almost impossible to rush unless you are rome. Defensive over kill, builds a million units. I found that he was no threat what so ever on the lower skill settings. But as ive moved up the difficulties (i play on emperor and immortal now), i have found him to be a real annoyance. If he has a lot of land, he still techs at an average pace. Even with him on rifles\grenadiers i struggled to destroy his stacks with infantry\arty.

    Tokugawa: Boxed in by this guy is even worse because Toku is a hermit who builds a bazillion units. He doesnt open borders unless you share a religion or are insanely nice to him and he's also protective\aggressive, menaing he's difficult to rush and always a threat at war because he builds so many units.

    Mansa Musa: I dont like the tech whores in the game, and nor do i like religion hogs. Mansa does both, and i just cant stand the way he still trades techs when annoyed with you\other ai's.

    Willem: Another tech whore/religion hog. Complete pain in the ass who declares at pleased. Possibly the worst of the lot.

    Shaka: hard to befriend, lots of units, loves war, need i say more. if you dont groan when you see this guy then there is something wrong with you.

    a special mention should also go to Zara Yacqob. his culture is worse than giggles because of his UB and his tendency to build stone henge. furthermore, he expands at a very high rate and id easily place him abover suyrav for annoyance factors.
     
  3. KeloGBites

    KeloGBites Warlord

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    Shaka without Vassals, is horribly backwards and not much of a threat.
    Shaka with a Vassal, is terrifying, with two... you're screwed. The most groan worthy for me is, Cathy though. Requires me to build up a lot of military chiefly as a deterrent.
     
  4. Sian

    Sian Emperor

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    i don't see why people hate tokogawa that much ... sure, you've to make an effort to get friendly with him (gifting religius techs works, as long as he aren't the closest thing to a Zealot on the map), and when pleased hes a very trustable attackdog,
     
  5. RulerOfDaPeople

    RulerOfDaPeople Emperor

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    Gilgemesh has always been somewhat irrelevent in my games. He techs average and he pretty much keeps to himself for the most part. I have been in a few token wars with him due to a 3rd party civ, but he's never been that much of a threat. He's just one of those leaders that fall into the category "Insignificant and Indifferent".

    I don't know why you guys have a problem with Wilhem. He's always been a decent and friendly ally for me in just about all my games. The only annoyance I have with him is that he's also friend with enemies and keeps open borders with them as well so they can get to my land.

    In no order

    Suryaverman
    Catherine
    Rameses
    Ceasar
    Shaka
    Heyena Capac
    Zara (For his wonder hogging)
    Montezuma (Not much of a tech threat but he's psycho and a nuisance. Getting in a war with him can stall important progress and infrostructure building.)
    Tokugawa - (He's a warmonger and even if not, he doesn't trade and still hates you. He's cold, backwards, and a waste of space.)

    I actually find most of them annoying. Any AI that nags the crap out of me for stupid things like going to war with some other random civ, or to shut my open borders agreement with someone, I despise.
     
  6. Mustakrakish

    Mustakrakish In 'Node' We Trust

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    Zara
    Mansa (combined with Zara as vassal = Major pain in the arse.)
    Jao
    Napoleon
    Monty
    pericles
     
  7. Shorlin

    Shorlin Warlord

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    I'm surprised no ones mentioned Saladin. He seems to dominate every game I play with him on the map.
     
  8. kochman

    kochman Deity

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    Saladin - just don't like him...
    Monte - I hate having to alter a nice game plan to rush him if I find myself next to him in the beginning
    Sury - Constantly asks for stuff... enough already! Better give him a couple of things to make friends, though eventually I always seem to slip back down to cautious after dozens of turns!!!
    Isabel - If you aren't Buddist, she is going to do everything she can to screw you over (since she almost always founds Buddism)
    Either Caesar (Especially Augustus) - Brutes
    Toku - a general pain in the butt

    honorable mention... Sitting Bull
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Augustus has a lowish unitprob and doesn't warplan at pleased. JC is a legit threat.

    If you just want ANNOYING leaders:

    Sitting Bull
    Joao
    Catherine
    Sury

    And then any other request spammers you want to throw in. Joao and SB just feel like the kings of "gimme gimme" though.
     
  10. LegioCorvus

    LegioCorvus Prince

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    I'm looking for the must frustrating. Which I guess would be a combination of "gimme gimme" leaders, competent warmongers, and just plain annoying. Monty being an excellent example of the latter. A problem I'm starting to run into now is that many of these guys aren't annoying if you start next to them or the like. Again, Monty being a good example. Easy to take out early, a pain if you can't.

    Catherine made my original list for the same reason. She's a pain most of the time, though those rare times you can maintain friendship with her early, she's not that bad. (Though she does go back to cautious pretty quick).

    Still fine tuning the list for my Saturday play through. Will update soon. Thanks for all the help in this thread, forum dwellers. :goodjob:
     
  11. KeloGBites

    KeloGBites Warlord

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    Sitting Bull..forgot about him, god he is very annoying. But he slips into backwardness very easily, Rifle War or Muskets against him are very effective to dislodge him, however before that you have to deal with his incessant turtle-demands. Joao el Backstabber can be a pain as well, though he rarely amounts to a real threat. Honestly, early game either Julius or Genghis are the biggest threats. Genghis can seem to create very large and effective stacks very easily.
     
  12. Rooftrellen

    Rooftrellen King

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    Well, I think there is more than one answer to this list, certainly.

    TMIT has just given you half a games worth of beggers that will either take everything you have or hate you (sometimes both, even).

    As you are looking for a specific group of leaders, I think you need to look at how they interact with others, which is something I don't think everyone on this thread has done. Monty surrounded by warmongers is a much greater threat to the player than Monty surrounded by techers, since in the first case, the player will be the prime target of a lot of aggression from 4000 BC and in the second case Monty will be backwards from the moment someone gets alphabet.

    Overkill in one area is probably harder to overcome than a number of leaders that are annoying for different reasons.

    Imagine playing a contenents with one landmass being Darius, Mansa, and Liz. Between the religon sharing and tech sharing, the player is likely to be left far behind well before Optics, particularly if the player is with other religion hogs (only threat to the other island is Mansa possibly getting another religion and breaking the harmony.)
     
  13. RulerOfDaPeople

    RulerOfDaPeople Emperor

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    I've found that Ragnar can be the biggest warmonger threat. He creates massive stacks and wars very tactfully.

    While we're on the topic an honorable mention goes to both Chinese leaders.
     
  14. KeloGBites

    KeloGBites Warlord

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    Ragnar can be dangerous, but rarely so in my experiences. Never had an issue with Mao, but QSH...that bastard...
     
  15. Mustakrakish

    Mustakrakish In 'Node' We Trust

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    I guess it's odd but neither Genghis nor Julius were never a serious threat to me in any games I played.
     
  16. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    Shaka, simply because of his high unitprob and the fact that diplo doesn't seem to deter him from coming after you. Monty can be won over and I've had him as an ally in a couple of games.
    Sitting Bull and Joao, with their endless requests sometimes make me wish that there was an "ignore" option for dialogue.
     
  17. Navarre

    Navarre Legio XIII

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    I don't know why people hate Shaka so much : at least with him you know where you stand. :p

    When I see him I just build more axemen. A lot more axemen. Like, only axemen. Then he DoWs on me, loses, gets vassalized, and the game is pretty much won, since everybody else will die. It's kind of hard to run a peaceful game when you have Shaka as a vassal, kind of like trying to take a cool walk while holding a pitbull on a leash.

    Or maybe that's just me. :D
     
  18. LegioCorvus

    LegioCorvus Prince

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    Alright, I've picked my 6 most frustrating to play against for my game tomorrow.

    Here's the list & reasons for having them (no order):

    Rome/Julius Caesar
    ~Praetorians. High Unit Prob. Backstabber. Expands well.
    Khmer/Suryavarman II
    ~Creative. Annoying. Declares at Pleased. -2 for refusing request. Very Annoying.
    Sumeria/Gilgamesh
    ~Creative. Protective. Potential threat all game.
    Russia/Catherine
    ~Creative. Annoying. Declares at Friendly. -2 for refusing request. Expands well.
    Dutch/Willem van Oranje
    ~Creative. Declares at Pleased. Need a tech whore on the list.
    Zulu/Shaka
    ~Aggressive. Highest Unit Prob. Need a wild card on the list.


    If I could have picked a 7th, it would have been Mehmed II.

    Sitting Bull almost made it, but he gets backwards too quick. Alexander didn't make it for the same reasons, despite being very unpopular here. Zara didn't make it, because if you haven't noticed, there are already 4 Creative leaders on that list. I don't think a culture specialist would have made a large difference in gameplay, and he tends to be a pushover for my play style. (So does Willem, but I needed a tech whore, and he is pretty unpopular here).

    If there was an 8th, I feel like it would have been Napoleon, but I honestly don't know. Too much of a hypothetical to worry about.

    In the end, it came surprisingly close to TMIT's list, with the change of Mehmed for JC, and Mehmed would have made the hypothetical 7th slot. 4 were from my first list, and 4 were also on my second list, which is probably only interesting to me.

    Thanks for all the help, guys. This should be a fun (& frustrating) game! :goodjob:
     
  19. crazyunits

    crazyunits Warlord

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    basically any leaders that beat me.....lol :)

    actually if i found myself next to anyone of these i have the tendency to regenerate:

    1.Shaka
    2. Sury
    3. Gilgamesh

    I like push over civs like mansa & ghandi/asoka, i usually race to vassalize/eliminate them first
     
  20. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Disinterested Observer Moderator

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    Hmmm. Let me see...

    Louis - Cultural pressure whore.
    Gilgy - Hard to rush early, and it's hard to get a tech lead against him.
    Justinian - Religion and horses make this fellow a menace.
    Sury - "Quit bugging me, already!"
    HC - Wonderspam, anyone?
    Peter - Like Gilgy, he's hard to keep up with, and hard to keep at least at pleased.

    Honorable mention: (A leader that I would never want to face, ever, ever, ever...)

    TMIT - Plays so fast that I can't keep up, and makes a video of it all to embarrass me on Youtube. :p
     

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