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600 AD Japan UHV - Help

Discussion in 'Gameplay Guides' started by Logoncal, May 20, 2020.

  1. Logoncal

    Logoncal Prince

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    Anyone knows how do i tech up properly as Japan after i get the Cultural threshold?
    I play on Marathon
     
  2. DanLT3

    DanLT3 Warlord

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    A key is how to get goal 1 done.
    You can only afford 1 big city if you should have 6000 culture in average by 1600 AD.
    You build the Himeji Castle and start fortifying units to generate culture for you.
    But whats important here is that its the right units which you can have use for later, Samurajs!

    When goal 1 is done its time for the China invasion with all those units.
    Pick 3-4 big cities with alot of resources and those with the holy shrines to conquer.
    This will surely collapse the Chinese so you don't need to overextend getting a poor economy.
    Now you need to make these cities shine.
    Ignore the rest of the Chinese mainland, but possibly raze a city which interefers with your city cross, but be carefull about the stability penalty when razing cities.
    You can starve the city to size 1 before razing it by parking units on all their food squares and sea squares by a blockade.

    One big core city is enough, two cities in the core would only give the average city pop as expansion stability and it would take alot of time to get the second up to the same size.
    Once you built up the economy (alot of cottages and 2 holy shrines with markets and so on in the cities, also spread the religions) for a rapid research rate you can continue to conquer or preferably make vassals to complete goal 2.
    Thailand is probably a good choice for a vassal as they are a late spawn civilization and they tend to not collapse to easily.
    The buddist holy city is probably a city you want to conquer and keep for yourself to further enhance your economy.
     
    stillblackadder likes this.
  3. Logoncal

    Logoncal Prince

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    I'm still trying to get the best possible outcome in terms of the first UHV1, but every time i try to do the 1 city strat, i get so far behind it isnt worth it.
     
    stillblackadder likes this.
  4. PacoPaco

    PacoPaco Chieftain

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    I agree that two cities is best (Tokyo + Edo). I'd like to three (+ Seoel), but you need the culture slider and I don't know if the extra city pays for that. I've managed Tokyo, Edo and Nagasaki, but that is definitely not worth it.
     
  5. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    UHV 1 is easily doable with 2 cities, cultural buildings, 4 GA and 10% cultural slider for a while...
    Himeji Castle adds a Statesman and a 10% chance to get a Great Statesman instead of a Great Artist, so a bit of luck needed.

    The question is the conquest UHV.
    How many turns does one need to conquest all far east?
    Is it better do it in one time, or expand slowly, Korea and Manchuria first, then other lands, with the possibility of Congress flip or civ respawn?
     
    stillblackadder likes this.
  6. BaneFire

    BaneFire Warlord

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    Definitely do it slowly. Congress is the worst, with all the random cities that can get stolen from you, especially by European powers. For that you just have to be slow, methodical and patient.
     
  7. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    I did a slow conquest.
    In year 1600 i settled on the asian coast north to Korea (it is Manchuria).
    I dropped there an army of 4 samurai, 3 bombard and a couple of crossbows.
    I conquered a collapsed Korea in few turns where i built barracks and started to train samurai.
    After units healed i attacked China.
    China collapsed after three cities.
    Mongols respawned. I needed to get another Chinese city next to the mountains to avoid Mongols expand in China.
    I settled another city in central Manchuria to enlarge borders and avoid settlements of Mongols or Russians.
    It was time to look at the Indonesia. There was a Dutch colony somewhere. Other lands were independents.
    I left the Dutch colony behind, because of Congress, and possibly collapse, and started to get some independents.
    Singapore first, used as base for expansion, then Sumatra.
    In the meantime the Dutch colony collapsed. Good!
    The situation in Indochina was that both Thai and Khmer where close friends of me, but they do not ask to be vassalized.

    By the way, is it possible to encourage vassalization using spies? It should avoid an unuseful war...

    At the end of the history i failed my target.
    I discovered an indian city in the jungle east of Bangladesh, in Indochina!!!
    I needed to conquest it in few turns, but it was surrounded of impassable jungle tiles.
    So i gave up.

    Japanese conquest is a very hard target where luck is the main factor, and i'm not telling of luck in combat, but how many cities are there, where they are and who own them.

    And there is always the third UHV, of techs.
    In 1900 UK and USA had 3 or 4 techs more, and a larger core for research.
    It seems easier to win the race to Mars, but in that case why spend time to get UHV victory if race to Mars is easier?
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  8. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    I'm trying another game with Japan.
    I tried to optimize research to get Renaissance era ASAP, trading a lot of techs.
    I got Firearms (and renaissance era) in 1460. GA in renaissance give more culture, so i needed just 3 GA to get culture target.
    In 1540 i conquered an independent Korea and i settled a city in Manchuria.
    China and Mongolia are still alive.
     
  9. TsarAndreas

    TsarAndreas Warlord

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    So what's the trick?

    My attempts to date have been using one city and lots of buildings (e.g. for culture, science and gold) to achieve the first goal. But as has been mentioned, you then end up chasing for the whole game, and by the time I start to catch up I can't afford to build an army as I'm putting everything into research. The idea of building aircraft carriers and conquering the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere in a few decades feels like an impossible dream.

    Now, I'm going to try:
    - 2 cities for the first goal
    - build lots of samurais
    - slowly expand into Manchuria and Korea early on and hope that I don't collapse

    I'm guessing it's better to vassalize than conquer, but how do you do that when everyone's dead? Then, when you finally get ready in conquer the barbarians, the original civ respawns and is ten times stronger!

    I'm not saying it should be easy, but it's definitely challenging.

    Out of interest, when do people build Nagasaki? It seems a bit of a dud - barely has any production!
     
  10. DanLT3

    DanLT3 Warlord

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    The goal is to achieve the first UHV as soon as possible. Doing more than one city will only make it take alot longer time.
    For 1 city you can either go with 2 GA and the wonder or 3 GA. For 2 cities you will need 4-6 GA, go figure how much longer that will take.
    Expansion is easily done in China once the Mongols collapse.
    When going for the 1 city strategy, don't settle a second city in the core afterwards, as it will only hurt you expansion stability (1 city in core will give you double expansion stability).
    And it should be obvious that Espionage is the way to catch up Tech wise. Especially Mongols will be cheap to steal Techs from.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  11. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    I never thought of one city strategy.
    I tried yesterday and it seems very easier. I got UHV1 about 1200AD.
    2 GA, Himeji castle, and some turns of cultural slider.

    Then i immediatly settled on the isle south of japan, a city on forest hill just above core land, and Sapporo in the far North.
    Another settler in the coast North of Korea (in the Vladivostok area).
    Then i easily got a collapsed Korea with 4 samurai and 2 cannons.

    Open border with China, and i moved to Hanoi owned by Khmer.
    Portugueses came to Canton, with just one unit to garrison. I got it easily.
    Then France sieged Hanoi.

    I used the same tactic i once used in India to survive to English.
    I evacuated the city.
    AI does not bombard an unwarded city, and does not attack without bombarding. So i kept intact my city.

    It is easier to play in this way: i could begin my expansion in 1200 instead of 1600 with two cities strategy.
     
  12. DanLT3

    DanLT3 Warlord

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    My tactic is without using the culture slider.
     
  13. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    I used the slider for a few turns, after Researching Feudalism, in order to have the exact culture when the second GA was ready.
    I was no able to use my spy against Mongols because they found it.
    I have a spy in English Kalkota, trying to steal some techs.

    The hard part of my game is that China is stable, and happy, and strong, so i have to wait the right time to attack.
     
  14. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Warlord

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    I built Nagasaki (and Sapporo, IIRC) as soon as I entered the Renaissance era, the get those free buildings.
     

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