6otM106 AAR

Knowtalent

Emperor
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Welcome to the 6otM 106 After Actions Report. In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state victory type, date, and score and the save choice (preferably in the post title), as recorded in the Hall of Fame, and the most important: your path to glory!
STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed and submitted your game
Please attached your victory save to your post.

- What did you prioritize for research and policies?
- Did you bother with Religion ?
- How did you pump your Science ?
- Were City-States helpful?
- Any surprises you ran into, how did you deal with it?
- How was the new game mode?
- Did you enjoy the game?
Please use spoiler tags for any surprise details you'd like kept hidden. Thanks.
Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game. Some players like to replay the game, and although we will not record the results from a replay, you can still post your new experiences (please state if the game is a replay). Please refrain from posting videos until the deadline for submission is over.
 
217 SV 1301 Score

Spoiler Turn 217 :
20210304002951_1.jpg


It was nice to play without all the crazy mods for once, it made making stratigic decisions about district and city placement feel more relevant :)

The clans were pretty interesting too, quite interestingly it leads to zero barbarians later on, as there are so many CSs that they clear everything up on their own. Also it makes Envoys (and indirectly Apadana and Diplo Quarter) way more valuable, since you can get so many 1/3/6 or even suz. boosts.

I played 100% peacufully, got up to 11 or 12 really good cities. Focused on getting a +5/+6 Oppidum and a +3/+4 Campus in each of them, boosting them with mines everywhere I could. Minmaxing these adjecencies was actually super fun, and sometimes quite challenging due to the Gaul restrictions :)

The AI was so far away and completely non-relevant, that it made the game a pleasurable Solitare-like experience. Very relaxing!
Thanks for the game :)
 

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  • AMBIORIX 217 1530 AD.Civ6Save
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An interesting game with prince AI on highland map. A great challenge on economy since highland map is lack of luxury resources and prince AI tend to have no money to "trade". My first GOTM and I enjoyed a lot.

- What did you prioritize for research and policies?
Since completing first Oppidum gives you free "Apprenticeship", I rush for "Iron Working" at early stage. Nothing special later, just follow the basic flow of peaceful sicence victory.

- Did you bother with Religion ?
No

- How did you pump your Science ?
By building enough settlers and completing research lab in every city.

- Were City-States helpful?
Geneva is the most powerful city-state in science victory but it's too far away and in my game AI had 8-9 envoys at the very early stage. But I controlled Johannesburg very early to help boost the production

- Any surprises you ran into, how did you deal with it?
Finding two barbian settler early, send me two free cities ~50t

- How was the new game mode?
That's a really good mode at least for peaceful science victory, do not bother with barbian in snow and significantly reduce the impact on AI destroying city-states.

- Did you enjoy the game?
Yes!
 

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  • AMBIORIX 189 1280 AD.Civ6Save
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Hmmmm, really should practice these new modes before trying a GotM. Found Fez real early and thought I would be able to Fez my way through the tech tree, but that tends to rely on having two relatively close neighbors with a religious focus to build you a bunch of Holy Sites to conquer. Canada cooperated, Egypt and Mapuche did not. Canada's HS were not high adjacency so a Work Ethic strategy went nowhere. My Ancient and Classical were mediocre, A golden Classical with no Faith generation to speak of so might as well lock down my Great Prophet, a GP who just languished for centuries.

Man, I hate Mapuche. I really should have cleaned him up in the Ancient, before I had to overcome the Golden deficit. A levied Rapa Nui army and a couple of Horsemen was not enough. Such a grind, having to smash 38 strength cities in the Classical at such a difficulty. But I took Egypt then my army was near Canada not Mapuche.

When Fez fizzled I lateraled into an Apadana strategy, and that worked well. Holy smokes, do a lot of City States pop up in the mid game with Barbarian Mode. All these camps I scouted but left alone suddenly became CS with an envoy already present. If I would have known how amazing that would have been I would have done a Culture run game, pushing for Collective Activism and International Space Station ASAP. I had 23 City States suzerained at the end of the game for +115%! And Raj for 46 goodies!

With so little help, I was just starting to get to the really good Great People by the end of the game. I thought I would be able to dig Robert Goddard out of the pile with as many GE points as I was cranking, but no such luck.

Thank you for the game. Turn 236, 2000-something score.

Spoiler :
upload_2021-3-5_0-3-17.png
 
SV 262. Standard peaceful science game. I don't like Highlands at all, as it's always limitless settling space and even more scouting to do.

When posting this, I saw @Chrumo 's post and noticed our empires look quite similar, including campuses, number and size and placement of cities, number of spaceports etc. First time ever I even went and downloaded his save to see why he was 45 turns faster and why even with that many less turns played, he was making 800 science more per turn. Yeeeeah... Kilwa gives you 3/4 of that difference and on top of that one more scientific CS (Mitla), pretty much makes up the difference. I think at turn of victory I was not running the diplomatic +5%/CS policy, though @Chrumo was not running rationalism. All in all we have pretty much the same amount of wonders, but Kilwa I'll be sure to mark up as priority in the future... crazy production in most cities anyway, so would have been fast. Also noticed Magnus can be utilized well for Vertical Integration in a setting like this. And I had way less trade routes too, did not bother with lack of rivers and coast.

Gaul seems like a strong civ and the new mod is quite cool too, though like someone mentioned, not a single barbarian in the whole map after something like turn 180.
 

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Replay (unofficial game) SV T197

This is the first time I finish a science at game prince difficulty and I needed a few restarts to get into the rhythm of the prince game and how the game feels like on this difficulty.
In the end I played 100% peacefully and I only built 7 very strong cities. I could probably have finished quicker by going a bit more wide or warring the AI.
I almost won a culture victory before the science one because I built do many wonder.

The new game mode was very nice and I really like it. Especially the way the city states are being rebuilt but also the very cheap units from the villages.
I generally don't like prince difficulty game, but the exception is science because a balance of civ growth and warring is required to get an optimal time. However, on a map like this, highland and only 8 civs on a large map, the warring is rather difficulty and as I replayed the map it didn't feel fair to war the AI as I would know where the AI is and finding the AI is one of the more restricting things.
 

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  • AMBIORIX 198 1370 AD.Civ6Save
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@Brokencar: Interesting game, quite a lot different from the approached I took with only 7 cities. Good to see there are more ways to play the game. I can see you moved away your capital 3 turns from the starting location, what was the reason for moving that far before settling the first city?

I am looking forward to someone with a warring game to post their time to see if that one is quicker.
 
@Brokencar: Interesting game, quite a lot different from the approached I took with only 7 cities. Good to see there are more ways to play the game. I can see you moved away your capital 3 turns from the starting location, what was the reason for moving that far before settling the first city?

I am looking forward to someone with a warring game to post their time to see if that one is quicker.

As far as I know, a general strategy for openning of peacefull science victory is "three city open" with one city for great pyramid, one city for government plaza and one city for oracle (also called Pingala city which usually will build a variety of districts with high population to help boost the science and culture in mid-game (say 70 - 120t)) However, the original start point doesn't have sand, and only 4 trees in 3 rings region, so I don't think that's a good spot for pyramid/government plaza or oracle. I used my warrior to explore west along the river to see whether there's a chance to find a better capital spot and luckily I believe my true starting spot has a lot more trees and also some high food hex to help increase the population easily.
 
SV year:1866 score 1432

First GOTM in about 15 years plus. I am still not up to speed on the changes in Civ and my gameplay shows, but this was fun.

I finished way too late turn 304, and I should have conquered more of the other empires instead of just building away on my core empire. That alone cost me a good 60 plus turns.

What did you prioritize for research and policies?
- Did you bother with Religion? Yes, I believe it helps and can get you extra production and research bonuses.
- How did you pump your Science? Mainly Campuses at almost every city
- Were City-States helpful? Yes and no, I need to manage them better, and I failed to find Fez for the longest time. LOL
- Any surprises you ran into, how did you deal with it? Not really, this was a very tame game
- How was the new game mode? I like the fact that the barbarians were tamer. They were almost too easy. It could have been the difficulty level too.
- Did you enjoy the game? I did, but I don't think I am a fan of the mostly mountain setup. I like more of a mixture of events.
 

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  • AMBIORIX 304 1866 AD.Civ6Save
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Last edited:
First GOTM in about 15 years plus. I am still not up to speed on the changes in Civ and my gameplay shows, but this was fun.
Welcome back! :wavey:

Hope you enjoy learning with us. :)
 
SV t276 score 1581
I thought conquering some nearby civs would help, since I was slow to expand (only3 cities up to t70). I didn't use the mines to boost adjacency until too late, too. I was hoping to get better speed, but took way to long to reach high tech rates >1000 bpt. I did a religion for buying campus buildings with faith, but didn't spread it fast so it was worthless for a long time.

Oddly, there were still Great Prophets to be earned when the game ended, so apparently even the AI thought religion was a waste of time.

Not happy with my game since it was such an unfocused attempt... too many interuptions made for short play sessions which led to too many strategic shifts and misses.

Oh well... I still had fun, and that's why I keep playing. Thanks for the game!

PS-the new game mode didn't affect me much. I mostly just razed barb camps for the golden age bonus. I thought of using them as cash cows, but never had the patience to wait 10 turns, so I would first take 50 gold in raid, then raze in a couple turns. Got a few late game suz but that was not a big deal either way.
 

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  • AMBIORIX sv t276 1810 AD sc1581.Civ6Save
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SV year:1866 score 1432

First GOTM in about 15 years plus. I am still not up to speed on the changes in Civ and my gameplay shows, but this was fun.

I finished way too late turn 304, and I should have conquered more of the other empires instead of just building away on my core empire. That alone cost me a good 60 plus turns.

What did you prioritize for research and policies?
- Did you bother with Religion? Yes, I believe it helps and can get you extra production and research bonuses.
- How did you pump your Science? Mainly Campuses at almost every city
- Were City-States helpful? Yes and no, I need to manage them better, and I failed to find Fez for the longest time. LOL
- Any surprises you ran into, how did you deal with it? Not really, this was a very tame game
- How was the new game mode? I like the fact that the barbarians were tamer. They were almost too easy. It could have been the difficulty level too.
- Did you enjoy the game? I did, but I don't think I am a fan of the mostly mountain setup. I like more of a mixture of events.

Welcome Back!
 
SV t231 score 1937

Given all the city states in the game (Barbs morphing into City States) I went with a three scout opening, and an Apadana strategy.
This was my first game with Gaul, and I found the differences around Specialty District placement and adjacency annoying, but I really love the Oppidum, and the builders-mines-borders expansion mechanic.
I intended to play peacefully the whole game but I got dragged into a war when Mapuche declared war on my Egyptian ally. So I took a few cities off of him, only stopping when I realized I was only hurting myself losing my Gevena 15% science boost for not being at war with anyone.
Fun game, thanks!
 

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  • Arnold_T t231 SV 1937 score.Civ6Save
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Science Victory
Turn 386
Score 1394

I didn't find the new Barbarians game mode all that compelling this first go-around. It certainly was interesting toward the beginning, but soured mildly by the after-experience. A barb camp became Mexico City but I conquered it immediately, and held the rest of the game. They had some boats in the water to the south, which I destroyed, but they appeared in the city-state list for the rest of the game (bug).

I founded and spread a religion early, using Tithe to build gpt slowly. That was my focus this game, after Science.

The AI never attacked me. India came close toward the end with a couple Cuirassier armies, but backed off once I shifted Modern Armor across my empire following a forward settle of Canada much earlier. It helped that I built up an extensive railroad system with Military Engineers.

I built a few wonders, just like my last GotM. Petra, Eiffel Tower, Estadio de Marcana, Ruhr Valley, Big Ben.

Tourism and culture rivaled this victory at one point because the AI was so bad at culture. Should have been faster on Prince. This even used a two spaceport strategy for building Lagranges and Terrestrials to shorten the space race. Hilariously, the AI sabotaged both my spaceports on their turn immediately before the win. India launched an Earth satellite maybe 50 turns after I did, which was the closest anyone got to making it a race.

Looking forward to whatever the GotM Team is putting together for Portugal.
 

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  • AMBIORIX 386 1965 AD.Civ6Save
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SV T186

One of the most tense civ6 game I played... Not that I was scared to lose, but I was literally one turn away from winning a cultural victory!

Strategy
I really tried to make Vertical Integration work for this game, but after crunching the numbers it simply does not make sense to do it... (especially when you can boost the production with royal society builders) Combining the facts that you need significant investment in infrastructure (factories, oil/nuclear power plants), the required strategic resources (oil, uranium), that unlocking these power plants come very late and that you are essentially researching at one tech per turn at that point of the game, it becomes really hard to build a case for Vertical Integration... Theoretically, even with the 7 IZs with nuclear power plants in range possible in this game (assuming I had the necessary uranium), Space Initiative was the better option (especially when you can boost production with a royal society builder per turn). Sadly, if one cannot make Vertical Integration work with Gaul (and the Oppidum) and 5 industrial city-states (including Mexico City) on the map, one will never be able to do so in any other set of circumstances...
This game I focused on getting a tall capital. I built the Apadana first and then the other wonders in the capital for extra envoys. Getting the Diplomatic Quarter and Kilwa Kisiwani in the capital were also key. All the extra envoys allowed to get 100+ gold alone from Merchant Confederation early on.

Gaul
Opening with double scouts makes the early culture accumulation faster
Culture bomb from mines helps you save a lot of gold (which would have been used to purchase tiles)
You can easily increase adjacency bonuses early on by placing mines next to districts (which is faster than building other districts next to them)
Harbors aren't really good with Gaul since you can't get the +2 gold when adjacent to the city center (unless placed next to another city center before it is founded)

Map (Highlands map script)
Obviously the map contains a lot of hills which make it handy to use the gallic culture bomb ability
There weren't many rivers though which made it harder to have good commercial hub spots. Combine this with the harbor limitation of Gaul and you do not get much gold from passive adjacency bonuses.
The map had a lot of good campus locations, I managed to get a +4 campus in most of my cities. It might have been possible to get one in all of my self-funded cities.
Since hills are likely to spawn near mountains, any of the following combination will get you a +4 campus: 3 mountains+2hills, 2 mountains+4hills, 1geothermal+1mountain+2hills, etc.

Pantheon
I been dying for a long time to find an occasion where Earth Goddess wouldn't be the go-to pantheon of choice for a science game. The recent nerf to Earth Goddess combined to the buff in the distant past of the Lady of the Reeds and Marshes has finally made this possible. When my starting warrior initially found a marsh and then multiple ones, I said: "This is it, the time has come!"
At the victory turn, from the better report screen policies table, it shows that I was getting 52 production from the pantheon versus the 102 faith I would have gotten from Earth Goddess. There are different things that enter into consideration where comparing production versus faith yields, but as a rule of thumb when you compare production cost to faith purchase costs the relation is that 1 production is equal to 2 faith. Thus, it was the first time that I saw a pantheon beat Earth Goddess late game.

Cities
15 self-founded cities
3 cities captured from Egypt (had to declare war anyway to liberate Fez)
2 cities loyalty-flipped from Egypt

Golden Ages
Since I was lacking from the early faith generation normally provided by Earth Goddess, I went with Exodus for the classical golden age which allowed me to found the 2nd religion. Unfortunately, Gitarja had already picked Choral Music with the first religion pick. A non-Monumentality classical age is definitely slower for expansion. All other golden ages were Monumentality.

Things I learnt in this game
After all these hours spent in civ6, I am amazed to still find some new things:
Apparently, if you complete the Pyramids by chopping with the last charge of a builder, you will not lose that builder and will still have one charge left on it

Bad luck from RNG
Bolshoi Theater (Got Cultural Heritage and Capitalism when I wanted Ideology)
Nalanda (Got Advanced Flight when I wanted Rocketry)

Mistakes
I misplaced 2 cities/2 campus location (which resulted in lower than +4adj campus)
Because of the lower era change pace of Prince difficulty, I lost 3-4 turns of science on early era changes
I missed Hypatia and Newton (didn't pay enough attention)
I was 1 turn too late to complete the Satellites eureka
I should have run the Liberalism card late game to get more bonuses from happiness
I decided to hard build the first Spaceport (it took 7 turns to build, it was a few hammers shy of taking an ideal time of 6 turns). Since on such a setup, reaching Globalization essentially means researching 1 tech per turn for the rest of the game any delay to the moon landing has a huge impact. I was however too short on faith to purchase it as usual and as mentioned before my governor titles were invested in Vertical Integration.

Barbarian Clans Bug
For some strange reason, a barbarian scout that has spotted a city does not seem to automatically trigged a "Barbarian Attack" operation when it returns to camp as it has happened in this game.
 

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SV T186

One of the most tense civ6 game I played... Not that I was scared to lose, but I was literally one turn away from winning a cultural victory!

Strategy
I really tried to make Vertical Integration work for this game, but after crunching the numbers it simply does not make sense to do it... (especially when you can boost the production with royal society builders) Combining the facts that you need significant investment in infrastructure (factories, oil/nuclear power plants), the required strategic resources (oil, uranium), that unlocking these power plants come very late and that you are essentially researching at one tech per turn at that point of the game, it becomes really hard to build a case for Vertical Integration... Theoretically, even with the 7 IZs with nuclear power plants in range possible in this game (assuming I had the necessary uranium), Space Initiative was the better option (especially when you can boost production with a royal society builder per turn). Sadly, if one cannot make Vertical Integration work with Gaul (and the Oppidum) and 5 industrial city-states (including Mexico City) on the map, one will never be able to do so in any other set of circumstances...
This game I focused on getting a tall capital. I built the Apadana first and then the other wonders in the capital for extra envoys. Getting the Diplomatic Quarter and Kilwa Kisiwani in the capital were also key. All the extra envoys allowed to get 100+ gold alone from Merchant Confederation early on.

Gaul
Opening with double scouts makes the early culture accumulation faster
Culture bomb from mines helps you save a lot of gold (which would have been used to purchase tiles)
You can easily increase adjacency bonuses early on by placing mines next to districts (which is faster than building other districts next to them)
Harbors aren't really good with Gaul since you can't get the +2 gold when adjacent to the city center (unless placed next to another city center before it is founded)

Map (Highlands map script)
Obviously the map contains a lot of hills which make it handy to use the gallic culture bomb ability
There weren't many rivers though which made it harder to have good commercial hub spots. Combine this with the harbor limitation of Gaul and you do not get much gold from passive adjacency bonuses.
The map had a lot of good campus locations, I managed to get a +4 campus in most of my cities. It might have been possible to get one in all of my self-funded cities.
Since hills are likely to spawn near mountains, any of the following combination will get you a +4 campus: 3 mountains+2hills, 2 mountains+4hills, 1geothermal+1mountain+2hills, etc.

Pantheon
I been dying for a long time to find an occasion where Earth Goddess wouldn't be the go-to pantheon of choice for a science game. The recent nerf to Earth Goddess combined to the buff in the distant past of the Lady of the Reeds and Marshes has finally made this possible. When my starting warrior initially found a marsh and then multiple ones, I said: "This is it, the time has come!"
At the victory turn, from the better report screen policies table, it shows that I was getting 52 production from the pantheon versus the 102 faith I would have gotten from Earth Goddess. There are different things that enter into consideration where comparing production versus faith yields, but as a rule of thumb when you compare production cost to faith purchase costs the relation is that 1 production is equal to 2 faith. Thus, it was the first time that I saw a pantheon beat Earth Goddess late game.

Cities
15 self-founded cities
3 cities captured from Egypt (had to declare war anyway to liberate Fez)
2 cities loyalty-flipped from Egypt

Golden Ages
Since I was lacking from the early faith generation normally provided by Earth Goddess, I went with Exodus for the classical golden age which allowed me to found the 2nd religion. Unfortunately, Gitarja had already picked Choral Music with the first religion pick. A non-Monumentality classical age is definitely slower for expansion. All other golden ages were Monumentality.

Things I learnt in this game
After all these hours spent in civ6, I am amazed to still find some new things:
Apparently, if you complete the Pyramids by chopping with the last charge of a builder, you will not lose that builder and will still have one charge left on it

Bad luck from RNG
Bolshoi Theater (Got Cultural Heritage and Capitalism when I wanted Ideology)
Nalanda (Got Advanced Flight when I wanted Rocketry)

Mistakes
I misplaced 2 cities/2 campus location (which resulted in lower than +4adj campus)
Because of the lower era change pace of Prince difficulty, I lost 3-4 turns of science on early era changes
I missed Hypatia and Newton (didn't pay enough attention)
I was 1 turn too late to complete the Satellites eureka
I should have run the Liberalism card late game to get more bonuses from happiness
I decided to hard build the first Spaceport (it took 7 turns to build, it was a few hammers shy of taking an ideal time of 6 turns). Since on such a setup, reaching Globalization essentially means researching 1 tech per turn for the rest of the game any delay to the moon landing has a huge impact. I was however too short on faith to purchase it as usual and as mentioned before my governor titles were invested in Vertical Integration.

Barbarian Clans Bug
For some strange reason, a barbarian scout that has spotted a city does not seem to automatically trigged a "Barbarian Attack" operation when it returns to camp as it has happened in this game.
Good game! I think vertical integration will never help to boost the turn for SV, however, it will be interesting to use vertical integration to create a city with tremendous production using Germany or England.
 
Good game!

Thanks!

I think vertical integration will never help to boost the turn for SV

Sadly, indeed. (Unless the current rules are changed in some way)

however, it will be interesting to use vertical integration to create a city with tremendous production using Germany or England.

Interesting for what purpose? Science is the most "production-intensive" victory condition, if it's not useful for a science victory then for what?

As for Germany, you can get a +15 Hansa (at the cost of sacrificing some tiles to districts from other cities) versus let's say a +6 Oppidum (which is what I had in my capital in this game). With Craftsmen, this is only a +18 production difference (which is doubled to +36 with a coal power plant) in favor of Germany: noticeable, but nothing that would move the needle in favor of Vertical Integration.

As for England, its been a while since I last played it. If I remember correctly, the +4 yield you get from Workshop of the World does affect the radius production of factories. If so, there might be a case here. If Mexico city is on the map, it might be possible to build the Exoplanet mission in 2 turns (which is only useful for some particular tech trees such as the one in this game). However, England has a coastal bias if I remember correctly and thus it is harder to get a good cluster of cities around your capital.

The main drawback of Vertical Integration is that your higher base production does not benefit from the +30% from the Space Initiative. The same applies to production coming from royal society builders. Also, there is the opportunity cost of having Magnus in your main production spaceport city instead of having him in your tundra spaceport city with a lot of woods to chop (about 2 laser projects/2 light-year per turn). Compound this with all the additional infrastructure (and strategic resources) needed to make this work and it just doesn't really make sense to do it.

Hint: I would be interested in playing a 6otM Deity/Science/England game in the future :D
 
Thanks!



Sadly, indeed. (Unless the current rules are changed in some way)



Interesting for what purpose? Science is the most "production-intensive" victory condition, if it's not useful for a science victory then for what?

As for Germany, you can get a +15 Hansa (at the cost of sacrificing some tiles to districts from other cities) versus let's say a +6 Oppidum (which is what I had in my capital in this game). With Craftsmen, this is only a +18 production difference (which is doubled to +36 with a coal power plant) in favor of Germany: noticeable, but nothing that would move the needle in favor of Vertical Integration.

As for England, its been a while since I last played it. If I remember correctly, the +4 yield you get from Workshop of the World does affect the radius production of factories. If so, there might be a case here. If Mexico city is on the map, it might be possible to build the Exoplanet mission in 2 turns (which is only useful for some particular tech trees such as the one in this game). However, England has a coastal bias if I remember correctly and thus it is harder to get a good cluster of cities around your capital.

The main drawback of Vertical Integration is that your higher base production does not benefit from the +30% from the Space Initiative. The same applies to production coming from royal society builders. Also, there is the opportunity cost of having Magnus in your main production spaceport city instead of having him in your tundra spaceport city with a lot of woods to chop (about 2 laser projects/2 light-year per turn). Compound this with all the additional infrastructure (and strategic resources) needed to make this work and it just doesn't really make sense to do it.

Hint: I would be interested in playing a 6otM Deity/Science/England game in the future :D

It's just for fun lol, like building wonders in less than 5t. Actually if science/culture/gold etc can also radiate then vertical integration probably will be much useful! BTW also interested to see a Deity science game for England!
 
I really tried to make Vertical Integration work for this game, but after crunching the numbers it simply does not make sense to do it... (especially when you can boost the production with royal society builders) Combining the facts that you need significant investment in infrastructure (factories, oil/nuclear power plants), the required strategic resources (oil, uranium), that unlocking these power plants come very late and that you are essentially researching at one tech per turn at that point of the game, it becomes really hard to build a case for Vertical Integration... Theoretically, even with the 7 IZs with nuclear power plants in range possible in this game (assuming I had the necessary uranium), Space Initiative was the better option (especially when you can boost production with a royal society builder per turn). Sadly, if one cannot make Vertical Integration work with Gaul (and the Oppidum) and 5 industrial city-states (including Mexico City) on the map, one will never be able to do so in any other set of circumstances...

@DanQuayle, thank you for the very interesting write-up.

I have a couple of questions for you wrt the quoted section above, re Vertical Integration vs Space Initiative. I had to make a similar kind of choice I guess in a recent game as Maya, where I was building the main spaceport with Magnus, but then had to decide whether to keep him as governor or switch to Pingala. In such a situation, as per above, it would seem the right choice is to switch to Pingala, but I'm curious as to whether your calculations also factored in the 5 turns in which two cities would be effectively without governor benefits? (I'm thinking it wouldn't matter very much, although it might over the long term if the spaceport city isn't also a major driver of beakers per turn, since I usually still have a lot of techs to research while the early projects are going on).

Also, would the presence of Sergei Korolev or Carl Sagan impact on this differently? In that Maya game I managed to snag both (and Korolev with Mausoleum, for two charges), which meant a lot less need for production over the total span of the projects. In such a case it seems it wouldn't matter much whether the main spaceport functioned under Pingala or Magnus. In fact it seems to me that the other Great Persons (Goddard, von Braun, Kwolek) that reduce the overall need for production also mitigate any difference between Magnus and Pingala. And how exactly do their bonuses stack with Space Initiative versus Vertical Integration? Is there any difference?

The main drawback of Vertical Integration is that your higher base production does not benefit from the +30% from the Space Initiative. The same applies to production coming from royal society builders.

I'm curious: what is your target base production (no governor benefits, no turn-by-turn chop benefits, no internal trade route production bonuses) for the main spaceport city? The best I've managed to do is somewhere around 100 - 110 hammers per turn (granted I'm not as proficient as many here). So it seems to me that Space Initiative would in such a case offer me around 30 hammers per turn, which maybe isn't that much different from Vertical Integration? Am I looking at this wrong?

Thanks in advance for your insights.
 
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