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6otM69 Opening Action

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Game Of The Month' started by leif erikson, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    26,039
    Location:
    Plymouth, MA
    Welcome to the 6otM69 Opening Actions thread.

    STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed at least 80 to 100 turns in your game.

    This thread is used to discuss the game once you've started playing through your first 100 turns. Apart from normal decency, the only posting restrictions are to please not post videos until the deadline is finished and to use the spoiler tags for screenshots. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. Please remember that we are running a family friendly site, so express anger or frustration with this in mind. :)

    Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through the first 100 turns. Anything after that should be posted in the After Actions thread once you have completed your game.

    - How long did you search for a site for your first city? What criteria did you use?
    - Where did you settle your capital city? Your second city?
    - Did you make a plan for achieving a Domination VC, what are the major steps you planned to take?
    - What did you research and which policies did you choose and why?
    - What was your build order?
    - Did you try for a Pantheon? Which one did you select and why?
    - How long did it take to find your neighbors? Were they hostile or friendly?
    - How soon did you build a District? Which ones did you prioritize?
    - Did you try to build any Wonders?
    - Did you emphasize expansion? How many cities have you built/captured in the first 100 turns?
    - How quickly did you get Trade Routes working, who did you trade with?
    - How did you play your governance cards, priorities?
    - Which Governors did you choose and why did you choose them?
    - Was your first age a Dark Age? Did you take any Dark Age cards?
    - What City-States did you meet and which ones did you cultivate to your side?
    - How were the Barbarians?
    - Any surprises?

    Please use spoiler tags for any surprise details you'd like kept hidden. Thanks.
     
  2. Palo

    Palo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2019
    Messages:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    I settled 1NE with a plan to build an aqueduct 1NE of that which I've got placed but not built yet. My build order went Scout, Scout, Slinger, Settler, Settler if I recall. Double scout is something I occasionally do anyways on Seven Seas since it's got so much land to explore but with the unique skirmisher two was definitely the plan. The difference though was I normally just send the scouts out forever until they accidently die to a swordsman or something but this time I wanted to keep them alive and in the neighborhood to come back and get upgraded to help with wars. One scout went north and met Jerusalem for a free envoy so no need to slot the faith card and my warrior met Antioch for another free envoy so I was good on early gold, too. The other scout went SW and met Gilgamesh who I immediately sent a delegation and friend request to eliminate any worry from his direction. Eventually I met Korea to my SE and she became my first war target. I settled two cities SW to cut off Gilgamesh who was boxed in with a mountain range completely blocking him from going west and two more cities to my east and SE which were north and west of Korea respectively.

    I was racking up golden age points and decided to take the classical gold which required me to finish my first campus (a +5 in the capital near two jungle, two mountains, and a geo vent). I picked Monumentality even though I had poor faith production figuring I might get a worker or two if I'm lucky from faith and could buy some with gold at a cheaper price to help chop and lay down a carpet of terrace farms. My first governor was Liang and I was hoping for the Pyramids but it went very early so I chopped Artemis in my capital and then the Oracle was taken by someone else very early, too.

    I could try an early war on Gilgabro once friendship expired but decided to try Korea since the nearest city had no walls and only a 22 strength or so. Unfortunately, I hadn't scouted her lands very well and just as I declared a formal war walls went up and a swordsman appeared in it. My warriors, archers, and three horsemen were in for a bad week. I did steal a settler so the war wasn't a complete waste but I also lost a horseman which went scouting deep in her lands looking for iron/horses to pillage and ran into two more swords and a horseman. I made peace and went to work building settlers and my empire.

    On turn 100 I've got seven cities (six of my own plus the Korean settler I stole). I've met about 6-7 city states getting suze with Mohendaro and Bologna with at least an envoy with each. My second city built the gov plaza and ancestor hall and there are three settlers built and on the move to new city locations to the east, north, and south. My capital with Pingala is two turns from size 13 with a campus, theater, encampment, and commercial hub completed. I've got two galleys out exploring and have met all but one civ. I'm in a dark medieval age but have two sources of niter hooked up and I'll be looking to start my next Korean war in about 15-20 turns or sooner with muskets though I'm not a big fan of dark age wars.

    No one seems to be running away on science or culture or empire size (I'm third on techs researched) and with feudalism researched my workers will be laying down more terrace farms to juice up my empire even more so I'm anticipating a relatively easy win even if it won't be lightning fast since my first early war failed. I've met Sumeria, Korea, Aztec, Germany, Hungary, and Scythia. I'll probably try to keep my military alliance with Gilgabro as long as possible and my goal is to push east to take out Korea and then Germany before reassessing.
     
    leif erikson likes this.
  3. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Messages:
    157
    I learned that I haven't played Inca enough to maximize their unique abilities. Combined with an aversion to using Aqueducts at all, I'm not doing as well as I might hope. But I'm having fun; I'm setting up to flip nearly all of Gilgamesh's kingdom the first Dark Age they receive.

    Hilarious and peculiar game where Barbs just flat out annihilated Korea's westernmost city, with a Barb Battering Ram and Catapult in the army, and while I was staging up for the assault on Geongju the river 1000 Year-flooded my army into soggy scraps. Korea has the worst and best luck this game, with Magdeburg switching hands probably 4 times.
     
    leif erikson likes this.
  4. Ownsya

    Ownsya Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
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    Male
    This is my first time attempting a diety game so I was expecitng a learning curve. I'm considering restarting this game, hoping someone with more experience would chime in.

    To my surprise it was an easy and safe start due to the starting location. Started with scout > slinger > settler > warrior, then continued spamming military units to make sure I can defend and also prepare to war.

    I met both Korea and gilgamesh early on. I noticed that Korea had access to iron but not Gilgamesh, and since I didn't have iron either I decided I'd war Sumeria first with spearmen. Just as I was position near their border, Korea was preparing an attack on my 3rd city but Gilgamesh had 2 settlers coming my direction. That was too tempting not to take so I did, and hoped that as I build more units Korea would change her mind about attacking me, which happened. So far so good. This was all around turn 65 or so.

    I tried taking Gilgamesh's nearest city as I also had catapults on the way, but due to poor unit management I lost more units than I should've. Korea's military might was going down in the meantime due to her war with an unknown neighbor so I thought it was a good opportunity to take her capital which was close by. Made peace with Gilgamesh and changed directions.

    A few turns later after getting into ideal positions, I went to war with Korea, easily took her nearest city and started heading towards her capital. The problem is I'm in a dark age, and couldn't keep the city from rebelling within 3 turns. As I was attacking her capital, the previous city rebelled but I managed to take it back the same turn, further losing population. It would rebel again in 3 turns and it did, the same turn I took her capital. Now the capital would rebel in 4 turns, so on and so forth. The 3rd time I captured her city I decided to just raze it. I'd already lost many units due to free city units and the remaining units are all low hp. Her capital rebelled, I took it a 2nd time losing more population, but it will rebel again in 3 turns.

    So it felt like I was doing fine until the rebellions vicious cycle started that also depleted my army. At this point, I have no chance of keeping her capital without another rebellion. I probably will have to wait for the next era and hopefully be in a heroic age or at least normal before a second attempt. But my question for more experienced deity players, is this game already lost considering I'm t114 and have already lost a good portion of my army? If it isn't lost, how would you suggest I proceed? I'm struggling to get the era points this game and that's probably what did me.

    Thanks for any feedback.

    Spoiler My civ, main part: :
    20190823002136_1.jpg

    Spoiler Korea's Conquered cap: :
    20190823002145_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  5. Vizurok

    Vizurok Magyar Soldier

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Messages:
    579
    Location:
    Hungary, Sátoraljaújhely (spell it)
    I am stuck at a boring Friday at work, so I figured that I have the chance to answer your questions and provide you with a makeshift rundown of Deity Domination.

    First of all, it should be stated that you are in a messy position. You do not have the army to keep fighting and being in a dark age, you wouldn't even be able to hold any city that you would conquer. (Generally speaking, you shouldn't really start offensive wars in a Dark age on Deity unless you are confident that you can rapidly steamroll the enemy.) The real problem is that peacing out to catch your breath does not really solve anything as you failed to catch up with AI Culture and Science and you only have 5 cities. Technically, you can still re-assess and build up a thriving peaceful empire that would be able to kill the other civs with modern units but based on your current results, this might be a bit too ambitious task. Personally, I would opt for the do-over and forego this game as a GotM but would try to win as in a challenging regular game.

    The generic problem seems to be that your approach to Deity Domination was not clear-cut enough. Although there are no rules written in stone, Deity Domination generally relies upon well-timed early / middle game rushes. This means that you only build a few core cities that will supply you with the units required for taking over a neighboring civ in the early game. After that, you will own the resources of practically two civs, and you are in a snowballing loop, basically you have won the game. Currently, early rushes are mostly reliant on Swordsmen as changes to game mechanisms established a clear superiority of Melee units. On this map, however, you don't have the early iron and you are unlucky to enough to have two science-savvy neighbors with powerful early UUs, so the Swordsmen rush seems to be a quite risky prospect. You mentioned that you used Spearmen for a war against Sumer - now this is an absolute no-go. Anti-cavalry are clearly inferior to melee units, ridiculously enough, Swordsmen do better than Spearmen against Horseman.

    Now, let’s talk about war goals. You have started a war with Sumer to capture 2 Settlers which is a fine thing indeed (Although where did these Settlers go? Did you only build 2 own Settlers in 110 turns?) but actually, completely unnecessary. If they found those cities, well, good enough, you will conquer them in time. But you have mentioned that you have tried to conquer the nearest Sumerian city and then you also managed to get a hold of the eastern edge of Korea. However, these goals are not really rational and quite difficult due to loyalty pressure. Military actions should focus on the swift, lethal and precise extermination of a civ with a strong flank of 8-10 units starting at a border city. If you can keep up the pace, and conquer a new city every 2-3 turns, then loyalty may even start working in your favor. After you conquer all the core cities, you can peace out, gather all the money you can grab in the peace deal and leave the enemy in eternal mediocrity (for example, you should not really care about the two northern Korean cities). Heal up your forces, and rinse and repeat against the next neighbor.

    Okay, now let’s talk about the actions that lead you to be able to do an early rush. You should extensively scout and find a relatively close and accessible enemy target and try settling in their direction. An ideal build order would be Scout – Settler – Monument – Worker – Settler in your capital as you don’t really have any reason to build up your army before reaching Craftsmanship. After that, you can churn out Warriors in every 1-2 turns, so build up some 8 of them and start banking money for their upgrade fees. I would recommend going for the Religious Settlements Pantheon for the free Settler that should follow the Iron on the map. After reaching Early Empire, you should install Magnus and chop in an Encampment and some projects to have a Great General for your campaign. Make the effort a delegation to all civs upon meeting as having the delegation grants you +3 Combat Strength (if they send it back, then you lose this edge, but hey, you get back the money). Obviously, you should focus on the down side of the tech tree and beeline Iron Working while keeping an eye on the two key Eurekas. You should wait with the war until you get Oligarchy as that +4 Combat Strength is very sweet. Don’t forget to denounce your enemies and use formal war as you want to be in acceptable relationships with other civs for trading reasons.

    And now, for last, I’d like to point out the specific things that I don’t particularly like on your screenshots (and I have not addressed it earlier).
    • First and foremost, you do not play as the Inca, you play as a generic civ, forfeiting all your advantages. You have only one terrace farm and no Qapaq Nan (building one of those would have netted your 4 era points) and you don’t have any Warak’aqs. I don’t really want to spoil the game but I sense that game-makers were leading us to a Warak’aq-based domination victory by making the most generic Swordsmen rush route inconvenient. Warak’aqs are upgraded scouts who do not need any resources and come with Machinery – you can pretty much follow the path laid out in the earlier paragraph, just replace the appropriate parts. Also, make sure that you have the Survey card slotted in for the extra experience.
    • You have two Catapults. Siege units are almost useless in the early game, they cost too much and are very hard to use. AI does not seem to focus on early Walls as much and Battering Rams will do the job if needed.
    • You really should have built at least one Encampment by turn 100. Great Generals are almost essential due to their movement and combat bonus.
    • Why would you found Willka Waman there and build the Government Plaza at that city? Inca bonuses are dependent on mountains, and that location does not provide any advantages. You should be aware of the GP adjacency bonuses, so it should be placed in one of your core cities, surrounded with other districts.
    • You should not be unfriendly with all other civs. I understand that you have declared at least two surprise wars, but before that, you could have focused on building up your relationships. Having trading partners is essential for your gold generations.
    • Your scouting halted too early. You still not know all the other civs and you could gain lots of era points by meeting them, circumnavigate the earth, finding Natural Wonders.
    • You should put more emphasis on city states. Selecting Amani early and circulating her in multiple city states can provide you with lots of era score
    I feel like that I came to the end of my post, which took much longer than I expected. I hope that I helped a little and please take no offence in my remarks. Should you have any additional questions, I would be happy to answer them.
     
    Fluphen Azine likes this.
  6. Ownsya

    Ownsya Warlord

    Joined:
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    Firstly, thank you very much for this extensive answer and mini-guide. It's a big help and a nice analysis of the situation.

    Yes, this is how I see it as well. I attempted an early attack but ultimately failed with many losses leaving me with neither an army nor a developed empire. Essentially I wasted 50 or so turns which is why I'm considering a restart.

    My idea was to attempt an early timed-attack either with swordsmen or horses. To that I had already built many warriors and a few spearmen to counter Sumeria before I could see Iron on the map. After realizing that Iron would be hard to come by, and similarly for horses, I should've just shifted to developing my cities and defending until a later era that might give me a tech advantage. Instead I kept going with military and got lost between two minds.

    I was thinking about this during my game as well. Thing is, I was under the impression that for diety, if I don't rush military first, I risk getting destroyed and losing my effort on cities. So I wanted to take cities instead of build them, at least get one neighbor out of the way before focusing more on development. I've seen some youtube playthroughs do this, and I followed a similar strategy for Emperor domination. Probably the anxiety towards Deity clouded my overall decision making this game. Not that even my best judgement is currently close to ideal anyway :lol:

    I'm surprised you say this because they did have both walls and encampents when I attacked. Also, up until now, I'm not very successful at taking cities without losing units unless I have siege accompanying me. Furthermore, isn't it a good idea to start gaining exp on siege units early on? It's what allowed me to reach rank 4 siege units (which are game changing) in my previous Emperor game.

    I did it for the horses. Though they probably would've been useless considering how late I got them. As for the GP, I still don't know how to best use it generally speaking, but the thought here was that given the relatively empty ground in that city, I could use it to boost future districts there.

    I never thought of this as a way to gain era score. So you mean circulating her to gain early suzerainship with her +2 envoys? That's a nice strategy.

    Finally, I guess I'm still making up my mind if I should attempt to finish this game. almost 400 turns left seems enough time to redeem it, but I usually rely on a tech advantage to beat the AI. How do equal tech battles go in the late game on deity? Edit:
    Decided to restart
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  7. WideCoast

    WideCoast Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    159
    - How long did you search for a site for your first city? What criteria did you use?
    1NE. Almost settled on place with thinking I can get Aqueduct bonuses, which I forgot last time, but then realised it's better to go one NE and put Aqdct where I originally was.

    - Where did you settle your capital city? Your second city?

    1NE from starting point, a bit to SE focusin on getting good Aqdct-TF synergy, probs too much, but I'm planning on getting that achievement with 2Aqdcts and 4 mountains :D

    - Did you make a plan for achieving a Domination VC, what are the major steps you planned to take?

    Not really, scouting and trying to stay alive :D Counting on Bombers if UU fails.

    - What did you research and which policies did you choose and why?

    Hback thinking of going Archery, but realised I grow fast so I switched to Irrigation after Hback and forgot to take Mining ....

    - What was your build order?

    Scout, Scout, Monument, Slinger, Slinger, Trader, Settler, Worker

    - Did you try for a Pantheon? Which one did you select and why?

    The one with extra Settler. I'm probs newbie and overvaluing Settler

    - How long did it take to find your neighbors? Were they hostile or friendly?

    Gilgamesh found me on t22 and denounced me on t24 or so...

    - How soon did you build a District? Which ones did you prioritize?

    D Money, Science and Encampents. You need gold to pay for your armies, science to to keep them on par with others and idk encampments seem like a good thing to do when going Dom. :D

    - Did you try to build any Wonders?

    Nope.

    - Did you emphasize expansion? How many cities have you built/captured in the first 100 turns?

    Nope. Last game I hated it when I had so many cities so I'm probs building 5-7 own cities and then razing everything I can if it isn't worth anything strategicly.

    - How quickly did you get Trade Routes working, who did you trade with?

    t27 and with the ones I got most money from.

    - How did you play your governance cards, priorities?

    At start +1g+1f to get pantheon, then +prod and going with +g+p one's when I can.

    - Which Governors did you choose and why did you choose them?

    Pingala to boost science and culture, but clueless after that.

    - Was your first age a Dark Age? Did you take any Dark Age cards?

    Yup, nope.

    - What City-States did you meet and which ones did you cultivate to your side?

    Antioch, Jerusalem, Hattusa. Going for Gold/Science ones. Was able to befriend Antioch, which eased some of my nerves regarding Gilgamesh...

    - How were the Barbarians?

    Dealt with before I could reach them, lol. I guess those CS are a bit more fearsome aswell.


    - Any surprises?

    How I was defended by CS's and AI from barbarians. Last time I tried Deity barbarians ate me before I got anything done lol.

    Spoiler t70 ss :
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019

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