[Vote] (7-25) Carthage Rework Proposals

[Recursive]

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VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 25
Discussion Thread: (7-25) Carthage UA/UNW Reworks
Proposer: @pineappledan
Sponsor: @pineappledan (database) & @Recursive (DLL)

Proposal Details

Spoiler Carthage UA Proposal :

Current Carthage UA

• 125 Gold when settling cities, scaling with Era.
• Owned Coastal cities receive a free Lighthouse
• Double Resource Diversity modifier

Proposed Carthage UA

• 100 Gold and 25 when your ownership of a Luxury Resource increases, scaling with Era.
• Double Resource Diversity modifier
• +5 XP to all Military Units purchased with Gold, scaling with Era.

Spoiler Carthage UNW proposal :

Current Carthage Great Cothon:
Unlocks at Currency (2 techs early)
Requires Market (instead of customs house)
+2 Trade Route Slots
-1 poverty
+2 to lighthouses and +3 to Harbors on Empire
All standard East India Company bonuses
Trade Route target and recipient bonus is 1 higher

Harbor bonuses:
+1
+150 HP
+2 War Supply
+15% when building naval units
+50% sea trade route length and +2
When a Sea Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a Tourism boost with the Civ based on your culture output
+1 to coast and ocean tiles
+1 to sea resources
Can buy Cargo ships with

Proposal:
Remove the Market requirement from Cothon
Add Coastal Only.
Cothon gives a free Harbor in all coastal cities.

Rationale:

• Carthage has been doing poorly in test games, and are appear to be in need of some buffs. I diagnose the problem as being that they have basically nothing except 2 more, slightly better trade routes after ancient era.
• The casting of Carthage as an ancient civ with early bonuses that just coasts is bad history. They are Carthage, not Phoenicia, the specific incarnation that is strictly bounded by existing between 900BC and 250BC, firmly classical era. Yet they are defined by what the Phoenicians did by colonizing the Mediterranean, and not other aspects of their culture.

Carthage UA

• Carthage's gold on settle overlaps with Spain, who also gets turn 1 gold from settling, and scales horribly. It's a complete non-entity after classical.
• I propose that the trigger for Carthage's instant gold be moved to connecting new resources to their trade network.
  • This is more unique, but still thematic to how the Phoenicians and later Carthaginians introduced and controlled the trades of lumber, glass, wine, and dye in the Mediterranean
  • The gold would trigger when the total number of any resource you have ever owned increases by 1. This is to prevent the bonus from triggering if you lose/regain the same city with the same resources.
  • Basing the trigger off total ownership means the game only needs to store the max amount of any resource Carthage has owned at one time, and not have to track all resource tiles on the map for Carthaginian ownership. This is more technically feasible and easier on memory, but does mean that if you lose 1 resource tile via conquest or tile stealing and then improve a different resource tile of the same type the instant yields won't go off
  • This ability ties into Great Admirals' Voyage of Discovery action in a way that is very thematic for Carthage. Hanno the Navigator unlocked.
  • The addition of to Carthage's kit ties into their technological edge over other Mediterranean powers during its heyday, Phoenicians' creation of seamanship and shipbuilding, and the alphabet.
• The new XP bonus on unit purchases is a reference to Carthage's heavy reliance on mercenaries and allies for their military strength.
  • This ability can be used as an offset to the XP penalty levied against purchased units
  • Alternatively, it gives a good synergy with the Authority Finisher and with Freedom's Draft Registration abilities, converting it into bonus XP.

Carthage UNW

• The Cothon was a harbor, so free harbours are very thematic. This also recalls the original vanilla bonus.
• The Harbor gives a lot of very useful and thematic bonuses that help Carthage's overall strategy. Having access to them early would be a both a flavor and power boost
• Being able to buy Cargo ships early and having access to the naval production modifier in time for Carthage's UU would be very useful.
• The Cothon gives +3 to harbours, but in the current kit you have to wait a full era for that bonus to come online. With the free building moved from lighthouse to harbours, all Cothon building boosts would be accessible when the UNW is unlocked.
• The market prerequisite is pretty pointless. It's a very early and very cheap building; I don't know why the Cothon needs any prerequisites at all.

VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 25a
Discussion Thread: (7-25a) Carthage Gets More Trade Routes
Proposer: @Rekk
Sponsor: @Recursive

Proposal Details
Current Carthage UA

+125 Gold when founding Cities, scaling with Era. Owned Coastal Cities receive a Lighthouse. Trade Route Resource Diversity modifier doubled.

Proposed Carthage UA

Gain a Cargo Ship after founding a Coastal City. Trade Route Resource Diversity modifier doubled. Purchased Units gain 5 experience, scaling with era.

Current Carthage UNW (Great Cothon):

Spoiler :

Available at Currency (two techs early)
Requires Market
Replaces East India Company
Cost: 140
Gold: +4

Receive an additional copy of all Luxury Resources around the City.
Incoming Trade Routes generate +5 Gold for the City, and +3 Gold for the Trade Route owner. (+1 additional)
+25% Resource Diversity Modifier for Trade Routes from this City.
All Harbors gain +3 Production, and all Lighthouses gain +2 Culture.
Gain 2 Additional Trade Routes.

-2 Unhappiness from Poverty in this City (up from 1), and -1 in all other Cities.
The Production Cost increases based in the number of Cities you own (no Population requirement).

Harbor bonuses:

Spoiler :

+1
+150 HP
+2 War Supply
+15% when building naval units
+50% sea trade route length and +2
When a Sea Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a Tourism boost with the Civ based on your culture output
+1 to coast and ocean tiles
+1 to sea resources
Can buy Cargo ships with

Proposed Carthage UNW (Great Cothon):
Available at Currency (two techs early)
Coastal Only
Replaces East India Company
Cost: 140
Gold: +4

Receive an additional copy of all Luxury Resources around the City, and 3 Cargo Ships in the City.
All Owned Cities gain a free Harbor.
Incoming Trade Routes generate +5 Gold for the City, and +3 Gold for the Trade Route owner. (+1 additional)
+25% Resource Diversity Modifier for Trade Routes from this City.
All Harbors gain +3 Production, and all Lighthouses gain +2 Culture.
Gain 3 Additional Trade Routes.

-2 Unhappiness from Poverty in this City (up from 1), and -1 in all other Cities.
The Production Cost increases based in the number of Cities you own (no Population requirement).

Polynesia Changes:

Spoiler :

Look somewhere else for your Polynesia changes.

Rationale:
Giving a cargo ship to each Carthaginian city leans into Carthage as a trade route civilization (as it already has bonuses for its trade routes) and keeps the settler rush intact. Conversely, it delays the immediate impact and extends the UA's active participation on the player throughout the game, and pushes them very hard into settling coast (and need to make sacrifices to settle inland for luxuries and defense). A cargo ship in classical is worth 140 or 250 , but takes quite some time to pay off and must also be protected from barbarians. With a trade ship and a granary/stone works, you can also remove isolation penalties from remote cities as needed while you tech towards lighthouses. Raze/Resettle also becomes something available to Carthage in the later game; it was never worth it for 125 era-scaled gold, but an additional trade route is a better trade. For reference, lighthouses cost 150 or 75 + 190 and 1 maintenance, but it's assumed that the free harbours on the UNW are a replacement for this.

To make the most out of the improved Resource Diversity, the civilization wants to settle cities with high resource density/variety, which creates some tension compared to just settling as many cities as it can (tanking happiness in the process). In addition, it focuses the civ outward, making it more difficult to protect said trade routes. Finally, it improves the gains from those trade routes, and provides a fallback when they inevitably start getting pillaged. The civilization wants to get a a good return on those bonus routes by that point.

Carthage now also has an additional gold sink in that it is worth purchasing units over the entire game. Carthage still doesn't have military bonuses outside of its UU, so this is more of a defensive bonus without investment into agressive global options.

Building	XP after Purchase	Level after Purchase	XP after Build	Level After Build	XP after Purchase (Carthage UA)	Level After Purchase ( CarthageUA)
Ancient	0	1	0	1	5	1
Ancient (Barracks)	7.5	1	15	2 (req 10xp)	7.5+5 = 12.5	2 (req 10xp)
Classical	7.5	1	15	2	7.5+5 = 12.5	2
Medieval	7.5	1	15	2	7.5+10 = 17.5	2
Medieval (Armory)	17.5	2 (req 10xp)	35	3 (req 30xp)	17.5+10 = 27.5	2
Renaissance	17.5	2	35	3	17.5+15 = 32.5	3 (req 30xp)
Industrial	17.5	2	35	3	17.5+20 = 37.5	3
Industrial (Military Academy)	30	3 (req 30xp)	60	4 (req 60xp)	30+20 = 50	3
Modern	30	3	60	4	30+25 = 55	3
Atomic	30	3	60	4	30+30 = 60	4 (req 60xp)
Information	30	3	60	4	30+35 = 65	4

Notes:
XP is stored up to 2 decimal places.
There are additional options that the player can take to increase XP in addition to this.
Teocalli (classical?) adds an additional 15/7.5 XP
Brandenburg (Industrial) adds an additional 15/7.5 XP
Elite forces (autocracy) adds an additional 15/7.5 XP
Mercenary units (medieval/industrial/atomic) get full XP on gold purchase
Draft registration (freedom, tier 1) eliminates the XP penalty for all gold purchases

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.