[Vote] (7-41 & 7-42) Japanese Dojo Buff Proposals

[Recursive]

Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

Host Note: 7-41 is compatible with both 7-42 and 7-42a (which are mutually exclusive with each other).

VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 41
Discussion Thread: (7-41) Increase Dojo's Yield Conversion From Combat XP
Proposer: @Legen
Sponsor: @Recursive

Proposal Details

Spoiler Dojo's yields from combat experience, both old and current :

Old ability
When Units are promoted, gain Culture and Science based on their current Level.
Formula: max [1, 4*(new level -2)^2]

Current ability
When Units created by this City gain Experience through combat, gain Science and Culture equal to the gained Experience.
Conversion rate: 1 XP = 1
Yields gain are rounded down, should the unit gain fractional values (e.g. 7.5 XP = 7).

Proposal

• Increase the conversion rate of Dojo's yields from combat experience by 40% (from 1x to 1.4x).

Rationale

Japan had a sharp drop in performance in the latest AI-only test, going from 7th to 38th, or from a 20% winrate to 2%. I had predicted before that Japan's performance came mainly from the XP handicaps that the AI gets (20 starting XP and +60% XP from combat at Emperor), as the old Dojo ability had exponential scaling with unit level, and two proposals that tried to address it passed: (5-19b), which removed the impact of AIFreeXP starting XP, and (6-26), which prevents AIFreeXPPercent from giving bonus XP from combat vs other AIs. The first proposal had minor impact overall, with Japan dropping from 3rd to 7th. The second one, however, is when Japan dropped from 7th to 38th.

Given the results seen after proposal (6-26), we can expect adjustments to yield conversion to be the most effective way to balance their performance, and we can now do so without major concern regarding AI XP handicaps. The AIFreeXPPercent handicap for Emperor is 60%, so a number somewhere below that should be a good starting value.


VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 42
Discussion Thread: (7-42) Benevolence As A Valid Prerequisite For Medic I
Proposer: @Legen
Sponsor: @Legen

Proposal Details

Spoiler Related healing promotions :

Benevolence (Japan, one of the possible promotions from Dojo's Eight Virtues of Bushido)
+5 HP when Healing for Units adjacent to this tile.
+1% Combat Strength for every 3 HP below maximum health.
Eliminate combat penalties for attacking or defending against Melee Attacks while Wounded.
Heal 10 HP after defeating an Enemy Unit.

Medic I
+5 HP when Healing for Units on or adjacent to this tile.
Valid prerequisites:

• Shock II
• Survivalism II
• Barrage I
• Trailblazer II
• Boarding Party II

Proposal

• Benevolence added as a valid prerequisite for Medic I.

Rationale

Currently, the healing from Benevolence only stacks with the healing of Medic promotions if both are present on the same unit; an ally adjacent to both one with only Benevolence and one with only Medic I will heal an extra +5, instead of +10. As such, in order to make full use of Benevolence, that unit has to learn Medic I and II as well, as only then they will stack up to +15 to its allies. Until then, the virtue is easily overshadowed by an allied ranged unit focusing on Medic promotions.

The issue is that Medic I requires the unit to learn Shock II, on top of the virtue being randomly picked; you won't know that this unit will have Benevolence when you first train it and has to select its promotions. If you go for the Drill line, or pick more circumstantial promotions like Cover or Amphibious, then you're in for disappointment if the unit gets Benevolence, as the virtue will require more levels to reach its full potential than if you had gone for Shock II. Adding Benevolence as a valid prerequisite for Medic I addresses this issue.



VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 42a
Discussion Thread: (7-42a) Increase Benevolence Heal Boost To +10
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @Legen

Proposal Details
Proposed Benevolence:
+10 HP when Healing for Units adjacent to this tile.
+1% Combat Strength for every 3 HP below maximum health.
Eliminate combat penalties for attacking or defending against Melee Attacks while Wounded.
Heal 10 HP after defeating an Enemy Unit.

Rationale:
Enabling a promotion to be picked for one of eight random units is weird.
The Benevolence unit is supposed to serve as Medic, saving you XP on your other (usually ranged) units. The healing aura is weaker than Medic I + Medic II, so we increase the healing effect to make picking Medic 100% unnecessary.

 

[azum4roll]

Note that current Dojo XP -> Science is not strictly 100% because of rounding (down), specifically when any XP modifier is in place. At 140%, it's almost always lower than that in effect, with or without modifiers.

Below table assumes standard speed and human player (or AI vs AI).

Action	XP gained	Current Science gained	Proposed Science gained	Actual percent
Pikeman melee attack	5.00	5	7	140%
Pikeman melee defense	4.00	4	5	125%
Crossbowman ranged attack	2.00	2	2	100%
Samurai melee attack	7.50	7	10	133%
Samurai melee defense	6.00	6	8	133%
Samurai ranged defense	3.00	3	4	133%
Samurai melee attack with Oil strategic monopoly	10.50	10	14	133%
Samurai melee attack with Elite Forces	11.25	11	15	133%
Samurai melee attack with Oil + Elite Forces	14.25	14	19	133%

The actual percentage seems to be 133% when Samurai is involved.

Side note: making this table makes me realize that player XP% (from policies) and unit XP% (from promotions) stack multiplicatively. Ugh. Next congress I guess.

 

[Rekk]

for 7-42a, if you roll Benevolence, is picking Medic a completely wasted promotion?

 

[pineappledan]

It sounds to me like if you do pick medic it will stack and you get +20 HP

If the proposal is saying it's going to change Benevolence so that it doesn't stack then that is not stated.

 

[azum4roll]

It will stack, yes. You did spend the XP to get Medic, and you get to benefit from it.

 

[pineappledan]

Nope.

Japan doesn’t need heal on kill and +20 HP medics. That is completely uncalled for.

 

[azum4roll]

Japan doesn’t need heal on kill and +20 HP medics. That is completely uncalled for.

And now they have heal on kill and +15 HP medics. That's ok for you somehow?

 

[pineappledan]

Yes, that’s fine. Benevolence is fine, it doesn’t need its heal doubled.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.