7 civilizations that make the game easier for you

Tiberiu

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This topic is about the civilizations that make a game easier for the human player if they are present in the game. Feel free to add to the list if you think there's anything I missed or give criticism and stuff.

1. The Netherlands

Reasons:

- When William is in the game, your potential to achieve certain things related to happiness become easier. (trigger We love the king, golden age, complete CS missions, stay positive with happiness, etc)
This is because his UA makes him sell you unique luxuries for half the price compared to any other civilization. You can for example give him 14 gpt or one luxury and only 4 gpt for a luxury that you would normally have to pay 28 gpt or luxury+18 gpt.
- he tends to grow tall because of his terrain and this can make him a good target for stealing techs.
- he has better than average friendship willingness and loyalty so he's great for having as ally.
- he's low in victory competitiveness and wonders so he's not likely to be your main rival on the path to victory.


2. Venice

Reasons:

- Venice usually has a few hundred gold in the early game that you can obtain by a quick declaration of war, and get 275 gold by selling a luxury+embassy, this allows you to buy what you need, faster. He doesn't want to stay at war so he normally accepts peace quickly and doesn't require anything from you.
- Venice is great for you in that you can obtain extra gold either from pillaging his caravans or by getting extra gold/science from his caravans being sent to you.
- Given his UA, he will be much easier to overcome in military strenght compared to any other civ, and this makes him vulnerable to your warmongering. There's little Enrico Dandolo can do if you decide to capture his capital, if you are his neighbour. Best to let him build a few wonders for you, as he usually manages to build a few in the early game. He sometimes likes to start out with Temple of Artemis so watch out for that!
- a great civilization to gift/sell cities that you don't need during the game.
- he is very friendly even if a bit deceptive and not very loyal.
- he is usually the best target to steal techs from, because he will have University+National College built much quicker than other civs and the capital is usually tall enough. It's likely he won't be the tech leader so the spy should be safe, otherwise pick another target until he gets left behind a bit.

3. Mongolia

Reasons:

- At the very least, having Ghenghis in the game is good for you to have a bit of assistance against CSs that you don't like or want taken out of the picture. You can pay him to attack city states that you want to gift units to, so that you receive more influence. You can liberate what he captures at some point and get easy allies.
- With each civilization that doesn't compete with you for CSs influence, your task of having allies becomes automatically easier and given CS importance, having Mongolia in a game is always a plus.
- AI can't efficiently use his UUs so don't worry about Keshiks.
- he tends to expand and he shouldn't be totally underestimated as he can potentially have a strong end-game if he conquers too many cities, but he has lower than average science as a weakness.

4. The Huns

Reasons:

The battering ram is a good unit, but you need only scouts to block it and they are worse units than the normal unit in the hands of the AI. Attila is easier than average to manipulate into going for wars on targets you don't like and he usually lacks the tech pace to become a victory contender. Similarly to Mongolia he can sometimes be used against city states you don't like. Farming XP on battering rams is easier since you don't have to worry about your units remaining on low hp.
When he is immediate neighbour he shouldn't be underestimated and care should be taken to ensure no battering ram gets into city range. Otherwise, one less rival on the path to victory as he lacks the science, with a value of only 3. He isn't likely to compete with you for CS influence or for anything else, in fact. His only hopes rely on capturing his immediate neighbour. If that happens it means there's one civilization waiting to be liberated, so that you can have an easier time for Diplomatic Victory.

5. Morocco

Reasons:

- You can make a few extra gold from sending caravans to Morocco, and you can expect him to send caravans to you to use his UA.
- He starts in desert and is likely to build Petra, maybe a few kasbahs. If he is close to you, capturing him after that happens can give you a very strong advantage, so helping him until then can be a good idea.
- Morocco can be dangerous after he obtains Berber Cavalry, but he should be taken out or weakened before that happens.
- Ahmad al-Mansur is one of the 3 leaders with the highest friendliness in the game so you can expect a DOF with him if you want to, to either get loans or research agreements, should you desire that.

6. Egypt

Reasons:

- There is a high incentive to capture Egypt and the rewards are big, so having Egypt in the game is a plus more often than not. Worth mentioning that when you are Songhai this is of very high importance since you can use the UA for great profits.
- When he is your neighbour or in close range, letting him build a few wonders as you prepare to capture his capital can turn out very beneficial but if he also builds The Great Wall, it's likely to require a very strong militaristic focus before he consolidates his empire.
- Egypt has a very strong diplomatic game and it's amongst the hardest civilizations to manipulate in civ 5. He is likely to compete for victory if he is far away and not kept in check by anybody. His weaknesses are in the form of lower scores for military, war, offense, and air. He has higher than average probability - score 6 - to become afraid and bullied into a friendship or to give in to trade demands. When he is far away he should be treated as the main rival and other civilizations should be manipulated into going against Egypt before they become too strong.

7. India

Reasons:

India has the highest friendship willingness in the game and the lowest boldness and war scores in the game. This means there is one less civilization to challange you militarily. He can't expand well due to his UA so he is vulnerable if you are his neighbour and want to capture his capital.
If he is far away he can be used in the late game for nuking other targets that you don't like.
Even though he's likely to compete for CS influence, India is a civilization that is easier to deal with in most aspects compared to other civilizations. Their UA,UU and UB aren't that good, especially in the hands of the AI, so what remains is a docile civilization with no aspiration for conquest.
Similarly to Venice, India should be open to a quick war & peace in the early game for some trade-for-gold, and the tall indian cities make for good tech stealing targets for the spies.
 
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Venice usually has a few hundred gold in the early game that you can obtain by a quick declaration of war

In a recent game I found Spain on T7, she had 600 gold because of, yeah Spain. Probably too inconsistent to qualify Spain for the toplist, but it can be worth to remember and scan for during the early game.

Thanks for the list!
 
In a recent game I found Spain on T7, she had 600 gold because of, yeah Spain. Probably too inconsistent to qualify Spain for the toplist, but it can be worth to remember and scan for during the early game.Thanks for the list!

Yea, I would certainly declare war immediately when I see Spain with gold. The AIs tend to accept peace 5 turns later and during the peace deal you have access to their cash like you would be in a friendship. There are some civs that sometimes refuse to make peace if you declare war on them, Zulu is one of them, I think. What flavours they roll probably matters a bit, and since you can never know what a civ has rolled in your game, there's always an element of risk with these actions. But some civs like Venice are very predictable. Another thing of note is that warmonger penalties are low for Ancient Era so basically you can be a warmonger early game and then if you settle down people will forget about it. Sometimes after these early wars you're even asked to DOF 1 turn after the peace. Weird stuff. Spain as AI seems average, I doubt they have code to hunt for the Natural Wonders or to settle them...it's quite probable they would get runaway very often if they did.
 
I would like to propose Byzantium to the list. Sure, they are a little inconsistent but they rarely assemble huge armies and are "normally" easy prey.
 
I would like to propose Byzantium to the list. Sure, they are a little inconsistent but they rarely assemble huge armies and are "normally" easy prey.

Hi Nizef, It would be good if you could expand a bit more on your thoughts on Byzantium so that I can add your reasoning next to it. You have quite a lot of experience with a lot of deity games played under the belt so I think you have a good understanding of how AIs perform in practical terms.

Now that you brought the attention to this civilization, here are my thoughts of AI as Byzantium and their unique abilities and how they affects us. Let me know if you agree.

- While dromons are good units (and upgrade into galleas instead of caravel!), the AI does worse overall with ranged units compared to melee, so that's good for us. Also dromon/galleas can't capture cities so in sea maps that can be huge handicap early - compared to carthagian quinqueremes for example.
- While Cataphracts are strong, they aren't Companion Cavalry as 3 vs 5 movement makes them easier to deal with and AI also doesn't use fortification in the best way.
- the UA isn't used to the best effect in the hands of the AI, as they seem to create religions in a rather random fashion (with the exception of big priority on the religious buildings), thus the bonus can be negligible even if she founds a religion. Theodora will never actively try to win with 3 buildings Sacred Sites for example.
- diplomatically, Theodora is very friendly (8) and has high friendship willingness (7), so she's a good neighbour and likely to send caravans and thus helping the player with some science early in the game when it matters the most.
Looking at her strenghts, she has higher than average growth and science, and likes to build wonders, thus the potential to become strong exists especially if she's far away. She can backstab as she is a bit deceptive and not very loyal, so she shouldn't be totally underestimated even when in a DOF.
 
Looking at her strenghts, she has higher than average growth and science, and likes to build wonders, thus the potential to become strong exists especially if she's far away. She can backstab as she is a bit deceptive and not very loyal, so she shouldn't be totally underestimated even when in a DOF.

I agree on your assessment. To clarify my thoughts: In my opinion she is one of the best neighbours one can have. She will trade with you, rarely spamming a lot of cities early in the game and she is not very aggressive (usually only attacks, if there is at least one negative modifier). If left alone, her late game might be quite strong (normally not) and I don´t like to have her on the other side of the map. But close by, Constantinople is a prime target to conquer, usually having a lot of wonders and population. EDGE#58 could be an example of my thinking.
 
Some more civs to consider:

- Indonesia for their special luxuries, depending on the map type
- Arabia for easy lux trades once they get Bazaars
- Sweden for the 10% bonus to Great People
 
Some more civs to consider:

- Indonesia for their special luxuries, depending on the map type
- Arabia for easy lux trades once they get Bazaars
- Sweden for the 10% bonus to Great People

A few comments about these civs:

More than usual options for trade are nice to have, and both Indonesia and Arabia have suboptimal UUs in the hands of the AI, thus they're not as dangerous militarily as others but both compete for religion and CSs. Indonesia can make having "We love the king" a bit more difficult because he isn't very friendly and can be reluctant to trade, I'd rather not have him in the game for this reason.
I am not really sure about Sweden and Arabia being easier to have overall because they both tend to interact with the CSs and they're not easy to bribe, and have high science flavour (7), but in peaceful games where you out-tech them I can see how one can profit from their bonuses.
 
I think many AIs are in a "grey zone", where they can make the game easier sometimes but not all the time. For example: When starting out on Deity I was scared to death by Shaka. Nowadays (while I still don´t like him as my closest neighbour), I more think of him as a potential pesticide, taking down scientific and cultural powers. But he might be a little bit like DDT. You know that the vermins will be killed but you can´t be sure if the entire planet will be destructed in the process... Also in an other way he might make the game easier: he tends to fall behind decisively in the lategame. However, I would still not classify him under the "making the game easier" banner. :)

EDIT: In reverse, I could say that there are only a few AIs that consistently will make the game harder. Actually, I am mostly thinking of Hiawatha and Sejong.
 
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I think many AIs are in a "grey zone", where they can make the game easier sometimes but not all the time. For example: When starting out on Deity I was scared to death by Shaka. Nowadays (while I still don´t like him as my closest neighbour), I more think of him as a potential pesticide, taking down scientific and cultural powers. But he might be a little bit like DDT. You know that the vermins will be killed but you can´t be sure if the entire planet will be destructed in the process... Also in an other way he might make the game easier: he tends to fall behind decisively in the lategame. However, I would still not classify him under the "making the game easier" banner. :)
EDIT: In reverse, I could say that there are only a few AIs that consistently will make the game harder. Actually, I am mostly thinking of Hiawatha and Sejong.

Great comments, I think the same of Shaka, he can be useful especially when far away so that you don't have to deal with his Impis. He can help weaken the others or distract their attention from you, at the risk of becoming too strong himself but at least even when he does become strong, he is left with low science score to hold him back. If he is close he might derail the normal plans one could have had a little, in order to prepare for a very probable confrontation. At least he doesn't normally interfere with religion, building wonders and with CS influence. As a fun fact, looking at flavours data I noticed he's the only leader besides Ghandi with a value above 10, he has 11 for expansion.

About civs who make the game harder consistently, I'd mention Greece because of how automatic and effective their UA is. Persia, Inca would follow with great UAs. Then any civ who has high chance to take Rationalism, like Korea, Babylon, Russia, Germany). I know what you mean with Hiawatha, he expands a lot...not to be underestimated for sure.
 
Great comments, I think the same of Shaka, he can be useful especially when far away so that you don't have to deal with his Impis. He can help weaken the others or distract their attention from you, at the risk of becoming too strong himself but at least even when he does become strong, he is left with low science score to hold him back. If he is close he might derail the normal plans one could have had a little, in order to prepare for a very probable confrontation. At least he doesn't normally interfere with religion, building wonders and with CS influence. As a fun fact, looking at flavours data I noticed he's the only leader besides Ghandi with a value above 10, he has 11 for expansion.

About civs who make the game harder consistently, I'd mention Greece because of how automatic and effective their UA is. Persia, Inca would follow with great UAs. Then any civ who has high chance to take Rationalism, like Korea, Babylon, Russia, Germany). I know what you mean with Hiawatha, he expands a lot...not to be underestimated for sure.

I definitely agree about Greece and Persia. In my games, Russia seems to open Rationalism very consistently and most of the time they are a threat. Also Bismarck seems to open up Rationalism most of the time. In addition, they both like to play wide/semi-wide. I might have some reservation against Pacacuti. I frequently play against him but rarely regard him as the main threat. However, I agree that he is among the better performing AIs when looking as an average over hundreds of games. Also Rome seems to do better than average.
 
I decided to test this concept, and had the easiest Deity victory I've ever had. I introduced a slightly random element by using Really Advanced Setup and giving the possibility that two of the other Civs mentioned in the thread might be on the map (as it happens, one of them was, but not on the same Continent as I spawned on. I ambled to a very peaceful (slow) turtled Science victory, going full Tradition. Considering the map after the game, though, I am wondering if it might be quite suitable for Honor-Commerce-Autocracy. I might replay it and see how that works.
 
I decided to test this concept, and had the easiest Deity victory I've ever had. I introduced a slightly random element by using Really Advanced Setup and giving the possibility that two of the other Civs mentioned in the thread might be on the map (as it happens, one of them was, but not on the same Continent as I spawned on. I ambled to a very peaceful (slow) turtled Science victory, going full Tradition. Considering the map after the game, though, I am wondering if it might be quite suitable for Honor-Commerce-Autocracy. I might replay it and see how that works.

That's great to hear, thank you for testing everything in a game! Could you say if you found anything noticeable about each civ you interacted with? i.e were the civs acting as expected of them and could you profit in the ways described? Any details are appreciated. And what civ did you play with? If you are England by any chance, I think you would win militarily for sure, too. I say this because I know you like England and they're so good on continental map... I like how you chose Continents instead of Pangaea, as Continents offers a few extra challanges - like meeting the others asap, dealing with the inherent mystery (you don't have embassies and don't know what policies the unmet civs took so you can't be sure about the availability of certain wonders, you have lower tech discounts for a while, fewer trade possibilities...
 
That's great to hear, thank you for testing everything in a game! Could you say if you found anything noticeable about each civ you interacted with? i.e were the civs acting as expected of them and could you profit in the ways described? Any details are appreciated. And what civ did you play with? If you are England by any chance, I think you would win militarily for sure, too. I say this because I know you like England and they're so good on continental map... I like how you chose Continents instead of Pangaea, as Continents offers a few extra challanges - like meeting the others asap, dealing with the inherent mystery (you don't have embassies and don't know what policies the unmet civs took so you can't be sure about the availability of certain wonders, you have lower tech discounts for a while, fewer trade possibilities...

Yes, I played as England (the only Civ I play -- in the days of Civ 4, I only ever played as Russia, for some reason).

It was also a chance for me to do something I normally never do, and play Tradition-Rationalism. I usually get bored if I try to play Tradition and I get very unfocused and sloppy. I am sure I played quite sloppily again, but it mattered less this time. In fact, you could almost say I played Sim City, building lots of infrastructure and avoiding war.

I can post the map if others want to try it. It has the same "defect" as the previous map I posted in that you need the map part of Acken's mod and Really Advanced Setup. But it was actually a pretty standard Continents map, with only a couple of extra forests, fish, and iron. Comments in the spoiler.
Spoiler :
One of the Civs I added to the mix to give a small amount of randomness was the Zulu. They spawned on the other Continent, so I did not know about them until quite late. Their behaviour was a bit different from what I expected. They were fairly hemmed in, so couldn't spam a lot of cities, and they proved impossible to bribe to make war on others.

Another "added" Civ was Byzantium, who was picked by the "random" process, and also spawned on the other Continent. They seemed to stay "middling" in power, but did begin to settle on my Continent after a while.

By and large, apart from the Zulu, the Civs seemed to behave as one might expect. The Huns were easy to bribe to make war on others (fortunately they were not my immediate neighbour), India went tall and cultural, Egypt built every Wonder they could, and so forth. A couple of things struck me: one was that there was no real runaway, and the civs seemed to stay fairly even until the late game, when the Huns took out Morocco, and the cultural effect from the Freedom civs exerted a lot of pressure (the Huns had a revolution and had to swap from Autocracy). The other was that no civ appeared to be able (or willing) to spam cities all over the place. Some of the supposed "advantages" of certain civs did not play much part in my game, for example I had no trade routes with Morocco because I was using cargo ships to feed my capital, and later it was more useful to send some to the other continent. I didn't trade much with William, either, mainly because what he had to offer wasn't needed at the time. Then again, capturing Egypt was off the table for much of the game because it would have meant building a large navy and going to the other continent at a time when the Huns were getting rather large and potentially dangerous.

All in all, it was a very nice game. And so nice not to have Venice or Austria eating up City States without warning. Another thing I like about it was that it was pretty balanced -- at the end there were still seven players left in the game, nobody had gobbled up the entire map, and there were still plenty of city states alive.
 
As an experiment I decided to replay the map using Honor as my first tree. The way the game went could hardly have been more different, though not really because of anything I did. More in the Spoiler:
Spoiler :
By the time explorers from the other continent arrived to find us, Shaka had already killed Egypt, and was eating up the map in fine style. I took three of India's cities without too much trouble, which gave me seven wonders and a lot of culture. However, Attila was already very strong by that time, and had gone Liberty (he had gone Honor on the previous play-through). He proceeded to fill up every scrap of the continent, and take out City States, as well as his immediate neighbour. I was slightly behind in techs, and he had a military about 2.5 times the size of mine, added to which I had not yet built a navy, so I decided to wait to catch up. I took some policies in Rationalism, then took Autocracy. Around T290, Shaka invited me to join in a war against Attila. I had bulbed several Great Scientists and was ahead in tech at that point, and my military was better, though still relatively weak, but I had some Tanks and soon had Lightning War. Morocco was the only other Civ left, but he soon disappeared, killed by Shaka. I played until about T320 to practise using Tanks, which I haven't used much. It would have been another Science Victory had I continued, but the map was getting so full that I called a halt. It is remarkable just how different a game can be depending on the RNG.

I always seem to find myself not knowing what to do when XBs lose their usefulness around T150. There always seems to be a gap when the enemy gets muskets and it is still some way to go before I can get Gatling Guns. What do people do in that mid period?
 
As an experiment I decided to replay the map using Honor as my first tree. The way the game went could hardly have been more different, though not really because of anything I did. [...] It is remarkable just how different a game can be depending on the RNG.

I think that's quite the case. There are a lot of variables, like - where barb cams spawn, what type of quest CSs give (an early ally can really have great impact), what policies civs go for, what religions are formed and by whom. Barbarians stealing one settler from a civ can potentially cripple that civ who in a different game became the strongest, in theory. A sort of "butterfly effect".

The same is true for our own civilization. Even things that might not seem that severe can potentially make or break a game. Even losing a scout to barbarians can trigger a chain of events if that scout could have potentially secured an ally with a CS by fulfilling a quest or stealing an extra worker/settler. Biggest RNG is when you make coups. Sometimes you lose with 85%, other times you can win with 30% while being at war with that CS (i did that at least twice).

I always seem to find myself not knowing what to do when XBs lose their usefulness around T150. There always seems to be a gap when the enemy gets muskets and it is still some way to go before I can get Gatling Guns. What do people do in that mid period?

I don't know what other people do but I generally consider the promoted XBs useful until War Bombers are about to appear, with the mention that after Cavalry appears, they need to be guarded by some other unit like pikemen. This is especially true for England, as even lvl 1 longbowmen are so much more useful compared to lvl 1 XB... Many times in fact I would still like to produce crossbowmen but I am forced to make them obsolete because factories are so good to have. Another way to see XBs obsolete would be the point at which they can no longer survive the attack of one city+ an XBs... (without oligarchy). Maybe strenght 45-50 city+ XB kills them? I will have to test this in a game. I mean, that's what I need from them, to be able to shoot a city and survive there for 1 turn, so that they can make experience.
 
Out of curiosity, and to see what I could learn, I decided to have another run-through from the time I hit Machinery and see what difference it made if I attacked a different AI first. The answer is that it made a huge difference. I found myself bogged down in a never-ending war, making no progress, having enemy units spammed at an impossible rate, and taking over fifty turns to capture the easiest city. After which, things got harder ... I was at the Unit support cap the whole time, and even became tech leader, but it was like wading through treacle. So I deduce it is better to go for the weaker competitors first, unless the map suggests otherwise. I also realised that a Civ that spams cities all over the map is not necessarily a threat if you are going for a Science Victory. You can keep yourself to yourself and let them (or persuade them to) fight with others. Very educational.
 
I think many AIs are in a "grey zone", where they can make the game easier sometimes but not all the time. For example: When starting out on Deity I was scared to death by Shaka. Nowadays (while I still don´t like him as my closest neighbour), I more think of him as a potential pesticide, taking down scientific and cultural powers. But he might be a little bit like DDT. You know that the vermins will be killed but you can´t be sure if the entire planet will be destructed in the process... Also in an other way he might make the game easier: he tends to fall behind decisively in the lategame. However, I would still not classify him under the "making the game easier" banner.

This is spot on. Shaka across the world is a useful tool for dictating foreign policy (by that I mean constant WAR). The best way to keep him from growing into a superpower is to have him war multiple Civs at all times. He'll usually comply and he becomes a good trading partner with all of the captured and expanded cities (I try to become his only trading partner as everyone else denounces him.)

It's when he's next to me where it gets interesting. When I'm not warmongering, which I rarely do, and Shaka is next to me, I'll DOW him immediately (before t20) and make him a Worker Farm while trying to block any and all expos. If you have at least 1 Scarcher and/or a Spearman, it only takes 3 units to pick off all of his early units and then you can steal or kill everything he produces, while leveling up the shooters. He usually sues for peace by Renaissance if he's getting his butt kicked and you've now eliminated the risk of early Impi spawn. The bottom line is I'd rather take the fight to him rather than wait for the inevitable.
 
It's when he's next to me where it gets interesting. When I'm not warmongering, which I rarely do, and Shaka is next to me, I'll DOW him immediately (before t20) and make him a Worker Farm while trying to block any and all expos. If you have at least 1 Scarcher and/or a Spearman, it only takes 3 units to pick off all of his early units and then you can steal or kill everything he produces, while leveling up the shooters. He usually sues for peace by Renaissance if he's getting his butt kicked and you've now eliminated the risk of early Impi spawn. The bottom line is I'd rather take the fight to him rather than wait for the inevitable.

This is definitely the way to go but I am quite poor at that. But I remember doing the same to Ram a while back and he was lost. Sometimes it might be possible to steal the second initial settler from an AI. The AI will not recover from that blow either.
 
This is definitely the way to go but I am quite poor at that. But I remember doing the same to Ram a while back and he was lost. Sometimes it might be possible to steal the second initial settler from an AI. The AI will not recover from that blow either.

I haven't done the initial settler thing in quite awhile. Does the radar still function the same way? If I get an immediate Spearman, it's a pretty easy takeout if you can get your scout there for flanking bonuses. The tradeoff on losing out on ruins is probably worth it as you are also likely preserving a future expo location if they are that close. May as well take out the cap once you've got them decimated like that. I haven't had as much luck with using a Warrior.

I should mention that the early war on a warmonger Civ absolutely requires at least one unit upgrade. Taking the time out to build units puts you too far behind in the critical early game. The idea is to hit them before they've spammed to 4+ units and whittle down their numbers so they never achieve critical mass.
 
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