[Complex] (7-NS) Anti-Aircraft Gun and Mobile SAM: class change and rework

[Yngwie]

Problem:
Now AA-Units cannot support your troops with fire in any way. They are very weak and have only (almost suicidal) melee attack.
Therefore they feel not like military Units but like defensive GG/GA or Siege Tower.They also don't have bonus vs Helicopters, though helicopters are hovering Units.

Proposal:
Change basic class of Anti-aircraft Gun and Mobile SAM to Ranged.
Add "Bonus vs Helicopters (100)" to this Units
Add "Bonus vs Naval" and "Anti-tank Rounds" promotions available for this Units at "Accuracy II"

New Anti-aircraft Gun:
all features of current AA-Gun
2 range
Ranged attack with 40 CS (same as real CS)
Bonus vs Helicopters (100)

New Mobile SAM:
All feautures of current Mobile SAM
3 range
Ranged attack with 55 CS (same as real CS)
Bonus vs Helicopters (100)

Rationale:
This Units are definetely closer to ranged and artillery Units than to Melee.
During WW2 AA guns were often used against tanks and infantry and were very effective due to their large caliber.
They will be more effective against tanks than Units with "Covering Fire I" promotions.
We don't have Anti-Helicopters Units until Jet Fighters, but Jets are air. Anti-Aircraft Gun deserve "Bonus vs Helicopters" cause it could face them before upgrade to Mobile SAM.

MAGI: Complex proposal, database changes and new animations are needed for the units.

 

[drakon717]

I like this idea. Support. Indeed, these units are more suitable for long-range fire. If it is possible, then you can do this. He used long-range combat, remained on the transition course without air defense.

 

[azum4roll]

What's this "Bonus vs Naval" promotion, and why should anti-AIR guns have it?

 

[Yngwie]

What's this "Bonus vs Naval" promotion, and why should anti-AIR guns have it?

It's existing promo from Civilipedia, provide +50% CS against naval melee and naval ranged Units.
Reason is simple: I will propose the same promotions for artillery, cause Artillery was one of the main source of anti-naval defense. This Units are relatively close to artillery.
So, there is no contradiction - this promo learn Unit to be a coastal defense system

 

[azum4roll]

provide +50% CS against naval melee and naval ranged Units

Which means it's not going to have a bonus against Submarines and Carriers?

 

[Yngwie]

Which means it's not going to have a bonus against Submarines and Carriers?

You've puzzled me. But if we stuck to existing promo, than yes - there is no bonus against submarines and carriers.
I gues its fair in case of submarines... But i don't know much about artillery warfare against carriers.
Probably this bonus should affect carriers too, but that should be separate proposal

 

[Stalker0]

This is a sponsor question, would the unit still intercept if it’s class changed?

 

[N.Core]

This proposal is way more complicated than it looks. A hard pass for me.

 

[Rekk]

This is a sponsor question, would the unit still intercept if it’s class changed?

Does the current unit still intercept if it attacks?

 

[Rekk]

Regardless, the stats of this unit should be set so that it doesn't become the go-to unit for ranged attacks (because of its flexibility or otherwise). Its primary focus should be anti-air, and only switch to its other attack method as a fallback option.

 

[drakon717]

In my opinion, if he attacked, he will not be able to intercept aircraft, as he has wasted ammunition. However, I'm not sure that this is technically feasible.

 

[Stalker0]

Does the current unit still intercept if it attacks?

pretty sure right now your attack does not hinder the interception....though perhaps your CS bonus is lower because of the damage (is damage taken into account with interception like it is with melee attacks? no idea)

 

[Rekk]

What's this "Bonus vs Naval" promotion, and why should anti-AIR guns have it?

That aside, this absolutely shouldn't have a bonus vs naval. At best, it should just not have a naval penalty.

 

[azum4roll]

Actually, do ranged units use CS or RCS to intercept? Did anyone try with Carriers?

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.