[Complex] (7-NS) Instant production affects processes (defense alternative)

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Anarcomu

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Counterproposal to (7-69) Instant production affects processes.

Original proposal :
City Processes convert instant production bonuses into their yield, equal to the conversion rate.
The Defense Process, gives :c5goldenage: Golden Age Points equivalent to the conversion rate.

Proposal :
City Processes convert instant production bonuses into their yield, equal to the conversion rate.
The Defense Process, gives city :c5strength:hit point equivalent to double the conversion rate.

Rational :
Original proposal is excellent, except for the :c5goldenage:Golden age points which looks out of place.
Instead of both city :c5rangedstrength:strengh and :c5strength:hit point for one turn, which can gives weird situation when a city suddenly become incredibly strong for one turn, this proposal gives double the amount of hit points to the city.

Edit : for clarity, Defense process does not increase the ranged attack of cities, only defense. Thanks to @Rekk for pointing this.


MAGI: Complex proposal, DLL and database changes
 
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so I can pop a great engineer to full heal my city? seems legit. If this guy can build the Hagia Sophia in one turn, he can also repair the city walls in one turn.
 
so I can pop a great engineer to full heal my city? seems legit. If this guy can build the Hagia Sophia in one turn, he can also repair the city walls in one turn.
I'd say fair enough. If you are willing to burn a GE to repair a city instead of securing a World Wonder, I won't stop you.
 
The defense process doesn't actually boost :c5rangedstrength: Ranged Combat Strength; it only boosts :c5strength: Defense, which is the combat value when defending against ranged and melee attacks, not when attacking.
 
The defense process doesn't actually boost :c5rangedstrength: Ranged Combat Strength; it only boosts :c5strength: Defense, which is the combat value when defending against ranged and melee attacks, not when attacking.
Thank you for this information, I have updated OP.
I won't change the proposal thought, I still think it makes more sense this way.
 
I've just tested in IGE, and the Defense process increased both the City's :c5strength: Defense and :c5rangedstrength: Ranged Combat Strength. And not just in the City's UI, it was properly reflected in the combat result preview against a barbarian unit.
 
I've just tested in IGE, and the Defense process increased both the City's :c5strength: Defense and :c5rangedstrength: Ranged Combat Strength. And not just in the City's UI, it was properly reflected in the combat result preview against a barbarian unit.
Hmm. It's not supposed to, based off of the code I read.
 
Is there a real differentiation between :c5strength:CS and :c5rangedstrength:RCS for cities ? I always assumed they where equal, barring modifiers from pantheon / policies (showing in the UI as % modifiers)
 
There's this
C++:
        // Defense process doesn't boost city strikes
        if (getProductionProcess() != NO_PROCESS)
        {
            CvProcessInfo* pkProcessInfo = GC.getProcessInfo(getProductionProcess());
            if (pkProcessInfo && pkProcessInfo->getDefenseValue() != 0)
            {
                iValue -= ((getYieldRate(YIELD_PRODUCTION, false) * pkProcessInfo->getDefenseValue()) / 100);
            }
        }
 
Yet, it isn't working as intended. There could be a bug in this code.
 
Yes, it's a bug.
There's this
C++:
        // Defense process doesn't boost city strikes
        if (getProductionProcess() != NO_PROCESS)
        {
            CvProcessInfo* pkProcessInfo = GC.getProcessInfo(getProductionProcess());
            if (pkProcessInfo && pkProcessInfo->getDefenseValue() != 0)
            {
                iValue -= ((getYieldRate(YIELD_PRODUCTION, false) * pkProcessInfo->getDefenseValue()) / 100);
            }
        }
getYieldRate() returns the displayed yield, but the division by 100 assumes that getYieldRateTimes100() was used. In effect, this means that RCS is receiving 99% of the defense process when it should be receiving 0%.

There's another bug that updates all of the requests for ranged city strength with the Defense process in mind immediately, even though the Defense process takes a turn to actually update combat strength, i.e. your city attacks get weaker the turn that you put the Defense process at the top of your build queue.
 
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so I can pop a great engineer to full heal my city? seems legit. If this guy can build the Hagia Sophia in one turn, he can also repair the city walls in one turn.
It's not possible to use a great engineer on a process is it?

On the topic at hand, this combined with Orders and Zealotry seems like it would make cities nearly invincible if you have enough faith output.
 
It's not possible to use a great engineer on a process is it?

On the topic at hand, this combined with Orders and Zealotry seems like it would make cities nearly invincible if you have enough faith output.
So lets throw in Indulgences for some fun and see what we can really do with this.

So we get 20% of any faith purchase back in hammers. Hitpoints Recover = 50% of hammers from this proposal.

This means that 10 Faith = 1 HP recovered. 1000 faith = 100 hp recovered.


I mean you want to blow all your faith on that city it does look like you could get a decent amount of staying power.
 
As a very wide civ that prioritizes religion I'll often have +1000 faith/turn by the Industrial/Modern era. So if you have the extra defense from the defense process, heal an extra 100 hp per turn, and are spawning a full xp unit per turn, that city is invincible.
 
Hitpoints Recover = 50% of hammers from this proposal
You cannot get that much amount of conversion. The defense process start as 10% conversion (into health and strength).
Without a power plant, the actual production-to-hp conversion is 20%. With a power plant, you reach 40% conversion (20% base, doubled), very late in the game, with a specific building.

If you get two specific beliefs, and cram 1000 faith in the city, essentially losing production for HP, with a power plant, you get 200 production, translating to 80 HP (very best case scenario), assuming you are not encircled, in which case you couldn't buy units since you wouldn't have enough space for it to spawn.

At this point, I'd say go ahead, spending that much faith for this result seems legit to me.
 
You cannot get that much amount of conversion. The defense process start as 10% conversion (into health and strength).
Without a power plant, the actual production-to-hp conversion is 20%. With a power plant, you reach 40% conversion (20% base, doubled), very late in the game, with a specific building.

If you get two specific beliefs, and cram 1000 faith in the city, essentially losing production for HP, with a power plant, you get 200 production, translating to 80 HP (very best case scenario), assuming you are not encircled, in which case you couldn't buy units since you wouldn't have enough space for it to spawn.

At this point, I'd say go ahead, spending that much faith for this result seems legit to me.
ah forgot defense was less than the other processes, thank you
 
I finally remembered what this series of proposals is lacking.

While instant production is proposed to convert into yields when working processes, something else has not been considered:
1. World Congress projects are processes, and it would be bad to discard instant production while working those, and probably worse to count them.
2. Leftover production from the previous construction is not considered, and is still lost if you start working a process.
 
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