[DLL] (7-NS) Military units consume gold on healing

[Anarcomu]

Counterproposal to (7-98) A new feature for Purchased Units - Consume Gold on healing.

Proposal :
When a military unit heal, it consume gold equal to : unit_purchase_cost * percent_heal / 4.
Overheal does not cost gold. Only applied heal cost money.

Rational :
The original proposal is applied to all bought military units, with a cost dependent on era. This proposal drastically change how wars are fought, adding an additional gold toll regardless of if you loose units or not. War have always been a money sucker and this would help conveying the idea more.

NOTE : The way this cost is convey to the player is at the sponsor's discretion.

EDIT : removed the "free on razing city" part.
EDIT ; halved gold cost to heal, from costing 50% of base unit to heal from 1hp to full, to costing 25%. Added precision for overheal.

 

[Recursive]

When a military unit heal, it consume gold equal to : unit_purchase_cost * percent_heal / 2. If it heal on a razing city, the gold cost is ignored.

Bolded part feels unnecessarily complex and unintuitive for players. You do plunder Gold when you capture a city, and if the intent is to simulate a resource cost, it does have to be coming from somewhere even in a city that's being razed.

 

[Anarcomu]

Bolded part feels unnecessarily complex and unintuitive for players. You do plunder Gold when you capture a city, and if the intent is to simulate a resource cost, it does have to be coming from somewhere even in a city that's being razed.

Updated.

 

[CppMaster]

I like it, because overall there will be less gold, so we can buff merchants.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

This is an interesting idea on an already interesting idea! So this would be for all military units, correct? (built and purchased with gold / faith alike)

My only caveat is to add this information somewhere on the UI - even a Turn summary of "X Gold has been lost due to Military Units healing" or whatever, so people don't get confused where their money went.

 

[Anarcomu]

My only caveat is to add this information somewhere on the UI - even a Turn summary of "X Gold has been lost due to Military Units healing" or whatever, so people don't get confused where their money went.

I will leave it at the sponsor's discretion. My preference would be as a negative instant yield (if such thing is possible). Also add a minus gold above the unit, the same way there is a plus heal (green) when it heal.

 

[Anarcomu]

I have another idea, however I have no clue if it would feel worst, or if it is feasible at all :

• Replace the heal passive action to an active action :
  • units heal when they take that action, and never passively. Healing end the unit's turn.
  • All healing ability text is changed from "+X healing" to "+X max healing"
  • Healing calculation is : min(remaining_movement / max_movement, 1) * max healing
  • March makes the healing to not end unit turn, and always heal at max capacity.
  • Healing count as fortifying if all movement is consumed.

This way, the gold cost must be paid upfront. It also allows to move a unit using part of its movement, ad use what is left to heal.

Would such a feature be possible ? Would it be in scope of VP ?

 

[AndreyK]

I think that is too much. Playing always on Immortal and sometime Deity I almost always struggle with gold in early and mid game. AI will always DoW on me and i heal my units may be 20-30 times more than buy or build them. With this I think that it will be impossible to play but on prince-king level.

 

[Legen]

This proposal reads like a major nerf to melee units, as they'd essentially cost gold on every attack. Also, infantry units in particular have the role of holding ground, and this proposal punishes them for doing their job.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

I have another idea, however I have no clue if it would feel worst, or if it is feasible at all :

• Replace the heal passive action to an active action :
  • units heal when they take that action, and never passively. Healing end the unit's turn.
  • All healing ability text is changed from "+X healing" to "+X max healing"
  • Healing calculation is : min(remaining_movement / max_movement, 1) * max healing
  • March makes the healing to not end unit turn, and always heal at max capacity.
  • Healing count as fortifying if all movement is consumed.

This way, the gold cost must be paid upfront. It also allows to move a unit using part of its movement, ad use what is left to heal.

Would such a feature be possible ? Would it be in scope of VP ?

In my personal modmod I have a similar feature (not free of charge, but with a new yield, Military Power), but there it's on top of existing healing, not instead. I can tell you that it's fun and gives more flexibility, but I couldn't imagine (maybe because I haven't even tried yet) Civ without the regular healing. Not to mention that it'd bring itself a lot of other mandatory changes (Medic promos, for example).
But the idea is interesting for sure, worth some brainstroming imo, even if it's probably out of the scope for a "regular" proposal.

 

[Anarcomu]

I think that is too much. Playing always on Immortal and sometime Deity I almost always struggle with gold in early and mid game. AI will always DoW on me and i heal my units may be 20-30 times more than buy or build them. With this I think that it will be impossible to play but on prince-king level.

How much would you think would be a good balance then ? 33% of base cost, 25%, 0% ?

 

[Tekamthi]

maybe i'm thinking too complex, but I'd also consider a model that applies different costs to different territories, along the lines of our current friendly/neutral/enemy. Healing in friendly should be cheaper than healing in enemy, shouldn't it?

 

[Tekamthi]

In my personal modmod I have a similar feature (not free of charge, but with a new yield, Military Power), but there it's on top of existing healing, not instead. I can tell you that it's fun and gives more flexibility, but I couldn't imagine (maybe because I haven't even tried yet) Civ without the regular healing.

you might be interested in combining with the 'supply-abstracted healing' experiment I'm working on in modmod sub. As it stands my work is just a stub, but maybe you could modify it into something more complete with what you've already started.

 

[Anarcomu]

maybe i'm thinking too complex

Probably not worth. I was also considering making ranged attack costing money (munition), or buffing the "anti ranged promotions" to add -damage taken, but it would be an entirely different proposal.

 

[Tekamthi]

Probably not worth

I'd just be concerned that the AI might not care.

Back on topic here, how much healing does AI do vs human -- this would be interesting to consider. ie. AI fields a lot of new units compared to human -- in the average war, is human gonna be paying double the healing costs that AI pays? I'm not against this but its something to think about, as I often scrape the bottom of my treasury as it is in some of the more intense wars.

 

[rkkn]

so the medic promotion makes you burn gold faster? I think it should be a flat cost per instance of healing. This way healing in enemy territory naturally costs more since it takes more heal procs to do it. And healing in friendly territory naturally costs less. Many times even if I'm very close to my city I don't bother moving my units into my own land because it takes an extra turn or two to move them there so I may as well just heal in place. This would add extra incentive to move into friendly territory.

That said I don't like this proposal anyway.

Also, what about over healing? Even if a unit is missing only 1 hp it still shows a green +10 or whatever when you heal. Do you pay for all of it or just the 1?

 

[Anarcomu]

Also, what about over healing? Even if a unit is missing only 1 hp it still shows a green +10 or whatever when you heal. Do you pay for all of it or just the 1?

No over healing. If you heal 7 hp because you reach the cap, you pay for those 7 hp, not more.

 

[Stalker0]

@Recursive @axatin I think this needs to be a supermajority, this is a major major change to how combat will operate.

 

[AndreyK]

How much would you think would be a good balance then ? 33% of base cost, 25%, 0% ?

I think even 5% going to make your treasury empty. In early game you won't be able even scout with your pathfinder - it would be killed or you will have no gold.

 

[usadefcon1]

I would agree that this should require a supermajority.

Perhaps a modmod version that we could experiment with first would be helpful.