[Complex] (7-NS) Stealing territories with melee Units during a War

[Yngwie]

Problem: everyone know situations when AI stole couple of your resources with Citadel. After that, you ought to use your own Citadel / take unnecessary City / raze it etc. But wouldn't it be nice if there were an option to gain only necessary tiles back?

Proposal: War mechanics for all melee Units. When a Unit starts its turn on enemy territory within working range of your City – occupied tile converted to the territory of your nearest City (Warmonger penalty is also implied).

Rationale: this option will provide some benefits even when you have problems with capturing a City or just don't want to prepare full assault

 

[Anarcomu]

There's already a modmod for that. I personally wouldn't want such a thing imposed to the base game.

 

[AndreyK]

I don't like this. This is to easy.

 

[Tekamthi]

I play with this modmod pretty much every game. In this sense I suppose it makes sense to me to integrate, though I don't think it's use is as widespread as something like MUC, my guess is probably only something like 10-20% would be in favor.

To make this work there is a certain supporting logic that is required, that is not fully addressed in the proposal. The big one that I remember right now is how to handle a razing city, for example it can be very game breaking if you capture all the tiles around enemy capital and then raze the city that now owns those tiles -- capital has already expended all it's tile claiming border expansion and cannot re-grow it's borders, need to buy them all back and it gets super expensive

 

[Stalker0]

This is definately modmod territory, tbst is a pretty big change in mechanics

 

[FinMc]

I love the mod-mod but it has two major problems

1) it makes the game WAY too easy as a human

2) it ruins the cities you capture as by the time you've taken the city, the vast majority of its tiles are owned by one of your other cities. If you annex this you can usually fix it (but it's buggy), if you puppet it you're out of luck. Also the AI does not realize this so it's a big nerf for AI captured cities.

However, it does make AI vs AI wars more interesting so I keep it on and use IGE to enforce neutral zones b/w my borders and my enemies so I can't benefit from it.

 

[Tekamthi]

2) it ruins the cities you capture as by the time you've taken the city, the vast majority of its tiles are owned by one of your other cities. If you annex this you can usually fix it (but it's buggy), if you puppet it you're out of luck. Also the AI does not realize this so it's a big nerf for AI captured cities.

it would be nice if we could get some fixes in DLL to make this work properly -- granted its not mainbranch stuff but I think it is a popular mod nonetheless. What needs to be done? We need an option to allow worked tiles to swap between puppets? I'll put a request on github i just need help getting the specific request figured out.

 

[hokath]

No from me.

 

[FinMc]

it would be nice if we could get some fixes in DLL to make this work properly -- granted its not mainbranch stuff but I think it is a popular mod nonetheless. What needs to be done? We need an option to allow worked tiles to swap between puppets? I'll put a request on github i just need help getting the specific request figured out.

There was a proposal (last session?) or idea for proposal to allow puppets to swap tiles, which used to be in the game. I think it was shot down to keep puppets from being op.

The bigger issue is the AI not redistributing tiles at all, presumably because it doesn't know how to/that it should.

 

[Tekamthi]

Maybe what could be done is create some logic in the mod to reassign the tiles on capture in some automatic way. Like at least the 2nd ring should go back if they're in ring 3+ for whichever city they're assigned to

 

[Rekk]

The bigger issue is the AI not redistributing tiles at all, presumably because it doesn't know how to/that it should.

What makes you think the AI doesn't take tiles from neighbouring cities?

 

[FinMc]

What makes you think the AI doesn't take tiles from neighbouring cities?

I haven't played in a while so unfortunately I don't have a game handy to screenshot. When I mouse over an AI city that was captured it's workable borders are shown and they're usually quite constrained/pushed up against the city from the direction it was attacked from.

 

[Stalker0]

@Recursive @axatin I would argue this is a supermajority kind of proposal, considering the very large change to warfare this would generate.

 

[usadefcon1]

Problem: everyone know situations when AI stole couple of your resources with Citadel. After that, you ought to use your own Citadel / take unnecessary City / raze it etc. But wouldn't it be nice if there were an option to gain only necessary tiles back?

Proposal: War mechanics for all melee Units. When a Unit starts its turn on enemy territory within working range of your City – occupied tile converted to the territory of your nearest City (Warmonger penalty is also implied).

Rationale: this option will provide some benefits even when you have problems with capturing a City or just don't want to prepare full assault

This modmod is what you're looking for:

Hex Conquer (Borders Only)

I have modified Matviyko Rozumiyko's "Hex Conquer and Release" so that units conquer enemy territory if: - The enemy territory borders your territory - Enemy units are NOT adjacent to the territory - Only units on land (not embarked) can capture, however adjacent sea hexes can also be captured...

forums.civfanatics.com

 

[epicivfreak]

There is a Gaia/Sapiens sub-mod that already does this and I think, though I'm not 100% sure since I rarely try it these days, that it's supposed to be compatible with VP. Before spending resources on this, give that mod a try. I think it's called Tile Conquest, or something similar to that.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.