(8-02a) 4UC Arabia: Numbers Nerf and A Different UU2

[azum4roll]

Links:

(8-02) 4UC Arabia

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Arabian civilization.

forums.civfanatics.com

(8-WD) Arabia & Byzantium 4UC Swap

Current : See pineappledan's proposals for 4UC Arabia and Byzantium here and there respectively. Proposal : - Swap the Arabian and Byzantine UA for the following results : Arabia - Seal of the Prophets - Can always found a Religion, receives one additional Belief when founding, and may select...

forums.civfanatics.com

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UA - One Thousand and One Nights
When you complete a Historic Event, your Capital gains +1 Science and Culture, and 10% towards the progress of a random Great Person.

UB1 - Bazaar (replaces Market)
Unlocks at Trade
Standard costs and maintenance
+3 +2 +1
+50% Land Trade Route range
Trade Route completion triggers Historic Event (strength 6)
Incoming Trade Route +1 for this City and +1 for the Trade Route owner
Cinnamon: +1 +1
Sugar: +1 +1

UB2 - Bimaristan (replaces University)
Unlocks at Education
Standard costs and maintenance
+3 Food and +3 Science
+1 Science to Jungle and Snow
1 Scientist Slot
-1 Unhappiness from Illiteracy
15% of Faith Purchases in city converted to Science and Food
Specialists in the city generate +1 Food
Gain instant Science equal to 25% of City's Science output when a Citizen is born
Gain instant Food equal to 100% of City's Science output when researching a Technology

UU1 - Camel Archer (replaces Heavy Skirmisher)
Unlocks at Physics
Standard costs
Does not require Horses
19 (+2) 16 (+2)
No Defensive Terrain Bonuses
Can Move After Attacking
City Attack Penalty
Naval Target Penalty
Skirmisher Doctrine
Withdraw Before Melee
Splash Damage I
Desert Raider (Ignore Terrain Cost in Desert. +25% Combat Strength in Desert.)

UU2 - Baghlah (replaces Frigate) - same art and model as the one here
Unlocks at Navigation
Standard costs
27 (+2) 36 (+1)
5 (+1)
Envelopment (+10% Flanking bonus. Benefit from Flanking when ranged attacking Units (does not factor in Adjacent Enemy Units).)
Note: this only counts the number of units surrounding the target that it considers enemy.

Rationale:
UA: The GP part is never intended to be the source of power (the Historic Events are). This reduces the amount of extra GPs they get throughout the game.
Bazaar: +2 Faith is enough to make them almost always found, but they don't have any major bonuses to benefit from founding. Reducing it to +1 Faith still retains the slight edge in founding as a historical nod, but not enough to guarantee a religion. The building has too much yields for its time anyway.
Bimaristan: Now that they don't have a big faith source, the faith to food/science convertor is less useful. It gains food on tech completion to complement the base University science on growth instead.
Camel Archer: It feels off that camels don't gain any advantage on desert. Its abilities are replaced with the desert bonus from the removed Hashemite Raider instead.
Baghlah: I like Hinin's idea (for the ship), but I think it fits more as a Frigate for its weight and time period. Envelopment is underused as a mechanic and can be used here.

 

[Solic]

I can get behind all the changes listed here, but how is Arabia ever going to need a frigate? Their whole thing is to go tall and turtle up. I think it's going to be a mostly unused component now.

 

[azum4roll]

By design, every civ has two unique units. Baghlah isn't more aggressive than Hashemite Raider anyway, and you always need ships to protect your coastal cities.

 

[pineappledan]

Does Arabia have a desert bias?

If not, being stronger in desert shouldn’t be the only thing the camel does.

You could reduce the desert raider bonus to only the ignore terrain bonus and add the other Hashemite promotion:
Ghazi: 15 AOE damage on pillage.

 

[Solic]

By design, every civ has two unique units. Baghlah isn't more aggressive than Hashemite Raider anyway, and you always need ships to protect your coastal cities.

Naval units are by design just more aggressive unless you are heavily biased towards coast like Polynesia or the like. Arabia can just settle inland and never need naval units, because it's not a civ that should go wide. This kit now has both situationality in needing desert and coast to make use of its components.

 

[azum4roll]

Does Arabia have a desert bias?

Yes, they do.

 

[pineappledan]

Even so, it looks like the unit is over-optimized on the start bias. Giving them something that works outside desert would feel better.

 

[Recursive]

This proposal can be accomplished without new DLL code, and is therefore sponsored by @azum4roll.

 

[azum4roll]

Gain instant Food equal to 100% of City's Science output when researching a Technology

This definitely requires a new table.

 

[Recursive]

Oh, my mistake.

 

[pineappledan]

“When researching a technology”? So like, all time time? What does that mean? Is that while you’re working the research process?

If you had left the UB ability alone you would have had a UB with an ability no other building uses and no DLL.

 

[hokath]

It's just the wording for gaining a tech
"When you research a technology, gain +2 [ICON_GOLDEN_AGE] Golden Age Points, [ICON_PEACE] Faith, and [ICON_CULTURE] Culture for every Follower of your [ICON_RELIGION] Religion (max 250 Followers)."

 

[pineappledan]

Oh so like the instant yields when you adopt a policy. Like the Oxford university on tech, but scaling on the city's per turn.

Seems like reinventing the wheel, and the existing UB bonus is already powerful, flavorful, and unique, but ok.

 

[azum4roll]

I'm not doing the swap here, so Arabia isn't a religious civ and shouldn't have a "faith sink" ability.

 

[azum4roll]

New table:
Building_TechExtraYield - BuildingType, YieldType, Yield, similar to Building_GrowthExtraYield

 

[Recursive]

Sponsored.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.