(8-08) 4UC Byzantium

[pineappledan]

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Byzantine civilization.

Spoiler Full kit with 4UC changes :

Spoiler Description of new components and changes to existing kit, differences from base component are underlined: :

UM - Dromon (replaces Liburna):

Available at Sailing​

100 Production Cost​

19 CS, 19 RCS​

4 Movement​

Half movement in Deep Ocean​

"Greek Fire" (Targeted enemy units suffer a debuff that reduces their max HP by 20 and their healing per turn by 10 for 3 turns.)​

"Splash Damage I"​

UW - Hippodrome (replaces Circus Maximus):

available at Metal Casting​

Provides 2 Horse Resources​

must be built in Capital​

Does not require Arena​

Free Arena in City​

10 turns of WLTKD in all Cities on Construction​

10 turns of WLTKD in all Cities at the start of every Era​

+1 Gold and +4 Culture​

+3 Gold to all Arenas and +3 Culture to all Circuses​

+1 Gold and +1 Culture to all Horse Resources on Empire​

+15% Gold and Culture on Empire during WLTKD​

+3 Happiness​

Production cost scales with number of Cities​

UA change:
changed "Leader_Flavor" value for "Naval" to 6

 

[pineappledan]

Reserved

 

[azum4roll]

So we have a UNW that gives a free Library, one that gives a free University, and this one gives a free Arena. Of the three, I think this one's the least necessary since it's very unlikely you don't have an Arena in the city by the time you unlock this. Essentially it's just instant production.

The other two unlock at the same time as their free buildings, so it makes sense.

 

[azum4roll]

Now that Dromon is back to being a Liburna, it makes yet another coastal bias civ...

 

[pineappledan]

Do we think having 1 naval UU out if 2 is enough to make a coastal bias necessary? I’m on the fence.

 

[FinMc]

Do we think having 1 naval UU out if 2 is enough to make a coastal bias necessary? I’m on the fence.

No I don't think it's necessary.

If you want the ships you'll walk a settler to the coast, not that hard

 

[Legen]

Do we think having 1 naval UU out if 2 is enough to make a coastal bias necessary? I’m on the fence.

It is for Netherlands at the moment. On StartBiasSweeps.sql:

-- Start biases
INSERT INTO Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean
  (CivilizationType, StartAlongOcean)
VALUES
  ('CIVILIZATION_ENGLAND', '1'),     -- UA + Renaissance UU wants coast (historical)
  ('CIVILIZATION_POLYNESIA', '1'),   -- UA wants coast (historical) UI needs Coast
  ('CIVILIZATION_DENMARK', '1'),     -- UA + Classical UU want coast (historical)
  ('CIVILIZATION_CARTHAGE', '1'),    -- UA + Classical UU want coast (historical)
  ('CIVILIZATION_SPAIN', '1'),       -- UA wants coast but is also heavily rewarded for expanding so doesn't need it (NOT historical)
  ('CIVILIZATION_PORTUGAL', '1'),    -- UA + Medieval UU want coast, UI needs coast (historical)
  ('CIVILIZATION_VENICE', '1'),      -- UA wants coast (historical)
  ('CIVILIZATION_NETHERLANDS', '1'); -- Renaissance UU wants coast and not rewarded for expanding (historical)

Byzantium is similar in rationale once you add the Dromon.

 

[pineappledan]

Netherlands also has a coastal UI. Also it’s a different matter if 1 of 1 UUs is naval, rather than 1 of 2.

I will remove the bias change from the initial proposal.

 

[stormfallen]

Netherlands also has a coastal UI. They didn't have a coastal bias until the Polder rework.

Whether a naval UU is enough for a start bias probably depends on how early it is. Early Classical is early enough to justify it IMO.

 

[azum4roll]

('CIVILIZATION_SPAIN', '1'), -- UA wants coast but is also heavily rewarded for expanding so doesn't need it (NOT historical)

I wonder why it's still here then... Comment seems to not want it to have the bias. I'd also remove it from England if this happens.

 

[Stalker0]

Greek fire in the picture says 2 turns, in text description 3.

 

[pineappledan]

Overall grade: B+
Byzantium has a solid UU addition and a passable UNW. The UNW is better in concept than in execution; the specific abilities something to be desired.

Dromon
Theme - S. The more I have read about Dromons the more impressed I am by the Byzantines and their shipbuilding. These craft were truly ahead of their time, and couldn't be more perfect as an emblematic unit for Byzantium.
Mechanics - A. I really want an actual DOT effect for these, but the Greek fire debuff placer is serviceable in its current form. (reduces max HP and healing for 2 turns)
Uniqueness - A. There are no other Liburna UUs in the game, and certainly nothing in the game that poses such a unique early threat in ship-to-ship combat.

Hippodrome
Theme - A. Great Theme. very important cultural institution to the Byzantine empire, worthy of portrayal.
Mechanics - D. I'm much happier with the idea of the Hippodrome in the game than the actual mechanics we came up with. The WLTKD and global WLTKD yields are boring and similar to other civs like Indonesia and China.
Uniqueness - C. It is a unique circus maximus and that is unique. Furthermore, I can't think of a more appropriate unique replacement for this base building in world history. However, outside of a synergy with Theocratic Rule, I have never felt this UNW adds much of a new dimension to Byzantium. That is understandable since their entire kit is so malleable, we had to be careful not to give them a kit that pushed them in any direction too hard.

 

[Stalker0]

Its an interesting question. Ultimately increasing RCS and CS leads to more damage, but often much less than people think (often just a few extra points, 5 extra is quite a lot). so considering the dromon gets a 1 time super damage of 20 on a unit (by lowering its max hp which in most cases will lead to a kill)....is this in fact the strongest damaging UU in the game?

 

[hokath]

MAGI:
Both the
10 turns of WLTKD in all Cities on Construction
10 turns of WLTKD in all Cities at the start of every Era
currently use lua
So we need a WLTKDTurnsGlobal column for buildings, and a WLTKDTurnsOnEraAdvance column

 

[axatin]

I can sponsor.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.