(8-09a) 4UC Carthage With War Elephants

[pineappledan]

Proposer: @pineappledan
Sponsor: @pineappledan

UMU2 - Atlas Elephant (horseman)
Unlocked at military strategy
125 (35 more than horseman; same as current elephant)
Does not require horses
16 CS
3 Moves / 2 Vision
Pillars of Atlas - (+20HP; Can cross Mountains)
Feared Elephant
No Terrain Defense
Attack malus against Cities
Can Move After Attack

Change to Ivory Monopoly -
No longer unlocks the war elephant
Resource provides nearby city with +15% Production modifier to Pre-Industrial Siege units (similar to +15% wonder modifier for marble)

UB - Tophet (replaces Shrine)
Unlocked at Agriculture
Standard costs and maintenance (none)
+1 +2
5% of the / cost in this city are given as Culture when you purchase or invest in a unit or building

Justification:
Simplified version of the bonus on unit purchase, triggering on every purchase so it doesn't require new code
Unique from other buildings because it triggers on BOTH faith and gold purchases.
Gives the vanilla Carthaginian UU2 back to Carthage. Simplest fix that requires no new art assets.
This elephant can cross mountains. har har har.
The elephant is named Atlas Elephant because that is one of the names used to describe the subspecies of African Bush Elephant used by the Carthaginians, because they come from the Atlas mountains. It also just sounds 'powerful', and is less of a mouthful than the vanilla "African Forest Elephant"
Elephant luxury gets a production bonus that matches the wonder construction bonus on marble. Less situationally powerful, but more consistently useful than access to an ancient era unit you might not even get to use.

 

[gwennog]

Nothing to say about your proposal which suits me except this, I do not understand the link between ivory and siege units.
The use of ivory is more linked to religious objects than to siege weapons, why not give same bonus for wonders as marble or something Faith related, maybe every building built in the nearby city gives 10 Faith, scaling with era.

 

[pineappledan]

The use of ivory is more linked to religious objects than to siege weapons, why not give same bonus for wonders as marble or something Faith related, maybe every building built in the nearby city gives 10 Faith, scaling with era.

This is the domain of the resource/monopoly/building yields, which are currently focused on golden ages and culture.

Some faith bonus like what you describe would be new code, and that is out of scope for this session.

The siege bonus is in light of elephants’ use as pack animals during times of war. The ability to haul massive loads is vital for siege logistics.

 

[gwennog]

This is the domain of the resource/monopoly/building yields, which are currently focused on golden ages and culture.

Yes, that's why I would prefer the same bonus as marble.

Some faith bonus like what you describe would be new code, and that is out of scope for this session.

I agree, maybe just a +10% Faith

The siege bonus is in light of elephants’ use as pack animals during times of war. The ability to haul massive loads is vital for siege logistics.

In this case, you must also give the bonus for cities that have oxen or horses nearby, same function .

 

[gwennog]

Excuse me, I'm arguing because we're going to have to vote for your proposal and while the rest is very good, this change is of no interest, in my opinion, of course.

 

[Hinin]

UMU2 - Atlas Elephant (horseman)
Same unlock and cost as current war elephant
16 CS
3 Moves / 2 Vision
Trailblazer III- (Can Embark, cross Mountains and use enemy Roads / Railroads)
Feared Elephant
No Terrain Defense
Attack malus against Cities
Can Move After Attack

Change to Ivory Monopoly -
No longer unlocks the war elephant
Resource provides nearby city with +15% Production modifier to Pre-Industrial Siege units (similar to +15% wonder modifier for marble)

From what I know, currently Trailblazer III also gives "+20% CS when outside of owned territory" and "Ignores ZOC" which makes it all a bit too much with stats like the AElephant's.

 

[pineappledan]

That's probably true. It might have to be a unique promotion

 

[gwennog]

Hannibal's March ?

 

[KlHannibal2]

Elephants crossing mountains? Hannibal did cross the alps with his army in winter, but of all the troops, the elephants fared worst. Only one individual survived, and it died soon after.

From what I can tell, carthaginian war elephamts were not particularly better than others, like thos of hellenistic kingdoms. Historically, I think the current war elephant makes more sense than a UU.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.