(8-17a) 4UC Germany UA Changes and Hanse Nerf

[Nightmare Dusk]

Original 4UC post: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/8-17-4uc-germany.690001/

Germany UA is split into two parts. the first part while powerful, is quite similar to Siam's UA, and less interesting. The +1 influence for gifted units to city states, is good early game with some beelining of techs, it falls of hard as +1 influence becomes much less impactful as game progresses, and become functionally useless the closer you start to approach the median of techs researched. This proposal is to remove parallels between their UA and Siam's, make the 2nd part of their kit more meaningful, and to give Germany some military might that is not existent in their current kit, (excluding UU)

Spoiler Current Germany UA :

Proposal
Blood and Iron
+1 influence per turn with city states for each gifted unit (lost when unit is killed), -15% production costs of military units

I also propose nerfing Hanse 5% production to 4% in order to tone down Germany's immense late game production, especially on building troops with this UA change

Spoiler Current Brauhaus :

Brauhaus right now has a set of bonuses based on your ideology when gifting city state troops and adopting tenets, with the change to UA the bonuses yields on gift our not as necessary and it giving different yields based on adopting tenets in certain ideologies is very cluttered.

Proposal
Remove all bonuses that are based of ideology and give 10 for each policy unlocked, scaling with era

 

[hokath]

So just to be clear, the important part is that the influence stays when the unit is upgraded.

 

[pineappledan]

+1 influence becomes much less impactful as game progresses, and become functionally useless the closer you start to approach the median of techs researched.

this is specifically why the UB added by 4UC adds an instant yield for gifting units. It keeps this mechanic relevant.

 

[Nightmare Dusk]

So just to be clear, the important part is that the influence stays when the unit is upgraded.

Yes

 

[Nightmare Dusk]

this is specifically why the UB added by 4UC adds an instant yield for gifting units. It keeps this mechanic relevant.

Which i do like, but i think just not having it disappear on upgrade is a much cleaner way of keeping it relevant, and gets rid of the stress of gifting a bunch of newly researched troops to get as much out of them before they're upgraded. It's a lot of effort for minimal gain

 

[azum4roll]

This requires changes to the upgrade unit code to carry forward the original owner. I'm not sure what other implications this can bring.

 

[Rekk]

This requires changes to the upgrade unit code to carry forward the original owner. I'm not sure what other implications this can bring.

I thought the ability was tied to a promotion.

 

[DoveCDog]

I'm all for getting rid of the UA overlap with Siam. Think this is a good idea.

 

[hokath]

MAGI:
Same Krupp Gun as base
Beerhall change removes a DLL requirement
Change to UA will need a small DLL tweak though for the upgrade part,
the production modifier should already work Trait_UnitCombatProductionCostModifiers

 

[axatin]

I can implement the changed UA, and I can try to implement the pillage ability of the Krupp Gun and teach the AI to use it. I don't see a way to make the AI understand Trommelfeuer correctly.

 

[hokath]

The use case is to (I suppose) attack with Krupp Guns against targets where the damage is less relevant first, so the bigger hits go for the juicier targets.
Even to a human this is perhaps not a super obvious assignment, eh.

Maybe a friendlier version would have been x% attack for every Krupp Gun that fired on the previous turn.

 

[azum4roll]

AI doesn't understand MultiAttackBonus either. I guess it just works?

The most obvious optimization of this ability is try to attack something with every Krupp Gun every turn, even if it's against a civilian unit (extra range and indirect fire help a lot here). And obviously attack the civilians first if they're the only valid targets, as damage against them is fixed at 40.

 

[Recursive]

AI doesn't understand MultiAttackBonus either. I guess it just works?

Tactical AI does actually factor it in.

 

[azum4roll]

Tactical AI does actually factor it in.

Huh, surprising.

 

[pineappledan]

It doesn’t seem necessary to go out of our way to accommodate the trommelfeuer promotion. The artillery units will attack things if they are able to. That’s already what they do.

 

[axatin]

Tactical AI does actually factor it in.

The tactical AI gives a bonus for attacking a unit that scales with the amount of damage made to it previously, which is far from being a correct calculation of the effects of the ability. But even if it were, it's an approach that can't be used for a bonus that depends on the actions of other units somewhere else.

The artillery units will attack things if they are able to. That’s already what they do.

That's true, but the order of the attacks also matters, and the AI won't take that into account unless trained to.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.