[Vote] (8-18) Greece

[hokath]

Choose which components you want to see for Greece!

In both cases the following art swap will be made:
Parthenon WW
Changed to "Nalanda"
Free Great Work changed from Art (Phidias Showing the Frieze of the Parthenon to his Friends) to Writing ("Way of the Bodhisattva" by Shantideva)

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[DLL] - (8-18) 4UC Greece

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Greek civilization.

forums.civfanatics.com

Proposer: @pineappledan
Sponsor: @axatin

New Unit - Klepht (replaces Commando - Light Infantry in EE):
available at Railroads
600 Production Cost
34 CS
3 Movement
"Ignores Terrain Costs"
"+25% when Attacking"
"Can Move After Attacking"
"Philhellenism" (Gain 5% for every City-State Ally, up to 25%)
MAGI: effect changed from base proposal by request of the sponsor

New National Wonder - Parthenon (replaces Scriverner's Office):
available at Writing
Production cost scales with number of cities
+1 Faith, +2 Gold, and +3 Culture
+3 City Strength
+1 Great Diplomat Point
+2 Paper resources (up from 1)
1 Civil Servant Specialist Slot
+25% Production towards Diplomatic Units on empire (up from +10% locally)
Receive 2 free Emissaries on construction (up from 1)
1Food in City for Every City-State Friend
1Food and 1Faith in City for Every City-State Ally
Diplomatic units in this City get the "Proxenos" promotion (Parthenon gains +2 Gold Per Turn from Diplomatic Missions)
+3 Culture to Markets on Empire

Old Building - Acropolis (replaces Amphitheatre)
Changed to "Gymnasion"
removed +3 City Strength
Changed base yield from 3Culture and 3 Tourism to 3Culture and 2Science

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(8-18a) 4UC Greece: Long-Awaited Greece Nerf (and Klepht Buff)

Links: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/8-18-4uc-greece.689987/ https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/8-18a-greece-alternative.690296/ Greece's decay lowering mechanic has been disproportionately overpowered ever since the decay formula was reworked to be exponential. It starts...

forums.civfanatics.com

Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll

UA Change: +3% Combat Strength of owned and Allied Units for each City-State alliance (up to +30%). Treat neutral City-State territory as friendly territory.

New Unit - Klepht (replaces Commando)
Unlocks at Railroads
Standard costs
38 (+6)
Reconnaissance
Brute Force
Commando
Combat Bonus When Attacking (25)
Scavenger
Can Move After Attacking
Philhellenism (+40% Combat Strength in Friendly City-State Territory.)

New National Wonder - Parthenon (replaces Scrivener's Office)
Unlocks at Writing
Standard costs
No population requirement
10% cost scaling per city
+2 Paper (up from +1)
+2 +3 +1 (up from +1 )
Grants 2 free Emissary on completion (up from 1)
+25% Production towards Diplomatic Units on empire (up from +10% in this City)
+1 Food for Every City-State Friend
+1 Food, +1 Gold, and +1 Faith for Every City-State Ally
1 Civil Servant slot
+1 Gold and +1 Culture to all Markets and Herbalists
Diplomatic Units trained in all Cities gain the Proxenos promotion (-50% Influence decay of target City-State for 10 turns when performing a Diplomatic Mission.)
Note: 10 turns are added every time a Proxenos unit performs a Diplomatic Mission. There is no cap for this. The turn number should be noted on the decay tooltip.

Old Building - Acropolis from the base proposal

 

[pineappledan]

18a is a massive nerf to Greece’s existing kit while all other civs are about to receive considerable buffs. If the rework passes, Greece will be the only civ to come out of 4UC integration weaker than they were with 2UCs.

 

[azum4roll]

Meanwhile I'm not ready to see Greece with infinite gold spamming diplo units like they're free. With a non-functional UU2.

 

[pineappledan]

Unlike your proposal the one in 8-18 is playable and tested. You could have taken the time to form an educated opinion about the mechanic you are so worried about; if you had tried a game with 4UC Greece you would find that the stacking gold is not unreasonable. On this I can say from my own experience that your allegations are baseless.
Instead we have we have a far more drastic change with no playtesting as the alternative.

Re the Klepht, the UU2 in 8-18 works just fine, unlike the one for 8-18a.
When are you even going to be standing in city-state territory to use that bonus unless you are killing the city-state? Giving a civ that needs CS allies a bonus that can only reliably be used to fight against CS is lame.

 

[azum4roll]

When are you even going to be standing in city-state territory to use that bonus unless you are killing the city-state? Giving a civ that needs CS allies a bonus that can only reliably be used to fight against CS is lame.

Do you never use CS as a base to attack others, or defend your own allies?

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.