(8-19) 4UC Huns - Tweaked Ulticur and Tarkhan

[Hinin]

Current :

UM - Tarkhan (replaces Horseman):

available at Military Theory
90 Production Cost
Does not require Horses
14 CS
4 Movement
"Migration" (transfers Movement to settler units stacked on the same tile (same as stacked GGeneral movement from vanilla)
"Bellum Alet" (Unit Heals adjacent Friendly Units by 15 HP on Pillage)

UNW - Ulticur (replaces Ironworks):

available at Physics
requires Forge in the city
Production cost scales with number of cities
+10 Production, +3 Culture and +3 Science
+2 Iron resource
+2 Gold every turn for each City-State you can demand tribute from
+2 Production and +2 Culture to all Stables
25 Science for every Construction
+2 Happiness for each major civilization currently at war with you

Proposal :

- Remove the Migration promotion from the Tarkhan

- Change the Alticur to the following :

Ulticur (replaces the Circus Maximus)
Unlocked at Metal Casting
80 Production cost (increasing with number of owned Cities) / No Population requirement
Provides 4 Horses

-1 Unhappiness from Boredom in the City
+2 Happiness, with 2 additionnal per Civilization currently at war with you
+2 Gold / Culture / Science in the City per City-State you could demand Tribute from, scaling with Era.

+2 Gold to all Arenas and Stables in the Empire
+10% Culture and Gold in the City during WLTKD

Rationale :

When discussing the Hunnic kit with pineappledan, we agreed that the Migration promotion was too difficult to use for the player and too AI-unfriendly to be worth keeping. It is more a gimmick than anything, and the unit can perfectly stand on its own without the promotion being replaced by something else (pineappledan's idea, not mine, and I agree).
As for the Ulticur, my proposal is only meant to allow the Huns to better transition from their Tarkhan / Horse Archer comp towards a Knight / Heavy Skirmisher comp in the Medieval Era. 2 Horse isn't much, but it allows for better flexibility and is flavorful for this building and civ in particular.

Edit : After discussions, I propose to make the Alticur a Circus Maximus replacement instead.

Edit 2 : Increased the bonus from potential CS Tribute.

Edit 3 : Made the bonus from potential CS Tribute scale with Era.

 

[azum4roll]

That makes 4 free horses that can never be pillaged, which is the one counter to units requiring resource.

 

[Hinin]

Where do the other two come from ? I only proposed to add two to the Ulticur.

Plus, from what I remember, doesn't Poland get a Horse for each exemplary of its UB ? What I propose is quite mild all things considered.

 

[azum4roll]

Everyone gets 2 free horses from Circus Maximus.

 

[Hinin]

4 Horses for such a mounted heavy civ isn't much. It allows the civ to not be totally suffocated while still giving its enemies leeway to cripple their military.

Plus, the point about Poland still stands. 4 free Horses is quite mild, all things considered.

 

[Chinag]

I don't think 4 unpillageable horse resources is gonna break the Huns, especially if it's a mid-game bonus. Arguably buying Horses from a non-participating third-party is non-pillageable.

 

[pineappledan]

I don't much care one way or the other, but I agree that just giving free horse when there is an earlier base National wonder that does the exact same thing looks pretty lame on paper.

If you want to go that route maybe you should just make the Alticur a unique Circus Maximus

 

[ma_kuh]

If you're in the market for UCs with proper trade-offs instead of just buffs, I think trading the Iron for 2 Horses is kind of interesting. You would have fewer heavy infantry, cannons, and fewer boats in the late game, but you get more horses for the early game, and more agribusinesses in the late game.

 

[Hinin]

I don't much care one way or the other, but I agree that just giving free horse when there is an earlier base National wonder that does the exact same thing looks pretty lame on paper.

If you want to go that route maybe you should just make the Alticur a unique Circus Maximus

We already have another unique Ironworks (White Tower) and a unique Circus Maximus (Hippodrome), so it's not like transfering the UC from one buildingclass to another creates problems.

Alright, I'll do that.

So we obtain the following :

Ulticur (replaces the Circus Maximus)
Unlocked at Metal Casting
80 Production cost (increasing with number of owned Cities) / No Population requirement
Provides 4 Horses

-1 Unhappiness from Boredom in the City
+2 Happiness, with 2 additionnal per Civilization currently at war with you
+1 Gold / Culture / Science in the City per City-State you could demand Tribute from

+2 Gold to all Arenas and Stables in the Empire
+10% Culture and Gold in the City during WLTKD

 

[pineappledan]

seems good to me. the happiness bonus makes more sense on a circus maximus base as well.

 

[KlHannibal2]

I did not play much as the Huns, but I find the ulticur's yields from city states you can demand tribute from odd. Except in the early game, you need to keep units near the city state to enable tribute. So to get those yields, your units need to sit there permanently. Isn't it better to just take the tribute and send your units off to conquer someone? Am I missing something?

 

[hokath]

I think it was meant to mirror Autocracy's AfraidMinorPerTurnInfluence effect on Tyranny, which no longer exists.
I agree it is superfluous. Probably you will rarely activate it, and if you do its just +3 yields.
Also, I believe it is currently implemented with lua

 

[KlHannibal2]

I think it was meant to mirror Autocracy's AfraidMinorPerTurnInfluence effect on Tyranny, which no longer exists.
I agree it is superfluous. Probably you will rarely activate it, and if you do its just +3 yields.
Also, I believe it is currently implemented with lua

It would however be cool for the Huns to have some tribute mechanic. After all, they exacted massive amounts of tribute.

 

[Hinin]

Edit 2 : Increased the bonus from potential CS Tribute.

 

[hokath]

Is it Era Scaling?

 

[Hinin]

Is it Era Scaling?

Don't think so, but it could. Ask @pineappledan.

 

[pineappledan]

No

 

[hokath]

How many CS can you reasonably make Afraid at the same time?
Even when this comes online +6 yields is comparable to a Friends bonus (note even Ally)

 

[Hinin]

How many CS can you reasonably make Afraid at the same time?
Even when this comes online +6 yields is comparable to a Friends bonus (note even Ally)

With scaling, the bonus becomes relevant throughout the game. We'll see how it changes the balance of the kit.

Edit 3 : Made the bonus from potential CS Tribute scale with Era.

 

[hokath]

MAGI:
Same requirements as base minus the movement on civilians column