(8-26a) 4UC Maya: Atlatlist, Kuna, and Ball Court Changes

[azum4roll]

Link:

(8-26) 4UC Maya

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Mayan civilization.

forums.civfanatics.com

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UU1 - Atlatlist (replaces Composite Bowman)
Unlocked at Currency
Standard costs
13 (+1) 14
Indirect Fire

I think everyone agrees that this unit is OP just for being unlocked earlier, even after the strength nerf. This proposal moves it back but gives it +1 CS to compensate.

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UI - Kuna
Unlocked at Construction
Must not be adjacent to another Kuna
Must be built in Forest or Jungle
Build time: 600 (7 turns)
+1 +2
Mathematics: +1 (readded)
Theology: +1 (down from +2)
Astronomy: +2
Archaeology: +1 +2
Flight: +1 +2

It's simply a sad tile until Theology now. The previous nerf has done too much and this moves half of the bonus back to Mathematics.
Production is added late game to lightly patch the production deficiency from having broken lumber mill triangles. It could be more Science or Faith, but it already feels too much like a mini-Academy/Holy Site mix.

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UB - Ball Court (replaces Arena)
Unlocked at Masonry
Standard costs and maintenance
+1
+1 Tourism for every 4 Citizens in the City
-1 Unhappiness from Boredom
+2 Production to Barracks, Forge, and Armory
+1 Food and +1 Gold to Olives
+1 Gold and +1 Culture to Perfume
Receive 10 Science and Faith at the start of every B'ak'tun, scaling with Era
Land Units trained in the city gain "K'atun Ahaw" Promotion
Receive the following if the respective Great Person has been picked from Long Count:
Great Writer: +1
Great Artist: +2
Great Musician: +1
Great Prophet: +1
Great Engineer: +2
Great Scientist: +1
Great Merchant: +1
Great Diplomat: +5% Production towards Diplomatic Units in this City
Great General: +5XP for Land Units produced in this City
Great Admiral: +5XP for Naval Units produced in this City

I'm making this because it's surprisingly codeable and makes your Long Count choices matter more. It doesn't feel like you don't have a UA anymore if you know you'll never get the bonus from the GP you didn't pick (unless you're one of those people who reach Mathematics so early that they get repeated choices).

Come to think of it, this looks suspiciously like events...

 

[Anarcomu]

I'd change the Ball Court bonus from great people slightly :

• Great Musician : +1
• Great Engineer : +1

I see food and gold as worth less than other yields, so I'm fine with merchant giving 1 of each ; same idea for the Artist. Otherwise, since every GP gives 1 yields, I see no reason Engineer should be different.

Also, since people seems to buy Diplomatic units more than they produce them, I propose this :

• Great Merchant : +2
• Great Diplomat : +2

 

[azum4roll]

I don't want it to be pure yields. There needs to be some other abilities.

 

[pineappledan]

I think everyone agrees that this unit is OP just for being unlocked earlier, even after the strength nerf. This proposal moves it back but gives it +1 CS to compensate.

agreed.

+1 +2
Mathematics: +1 (readded)
Theology: +1 (down from +2)
Astronomy: +2
Archaeology: +1 +2
Flight: +1 +2

I agree with the general idea, but why not move the boost from +2 on theology to +2 on Philosophy?

I agree with the original sentiment that a +2 yield boost 1 tech level after the UI unlocks was ridiculous. If that was genuinely needed then it is not different enough from just adding the yields directly on unlock. It remains a silly idea at +1. Moving the first tech boost back by 2 tech levels was excessive, and I said so at the time. I think we should just move it back 1 level instead of splitting it.

Receive the following if the respective Great Person has been picked from Long Count:
Great Writer: +1
Great Artist: +2
Great Musician: +1
Great Prophet: +1
Great Engineer: +2
Great Scientist: +1
Great Merchant: +1
Great Diplomat: +5% Production towards Diplomatic Units in this City
Great General: +5XP for Land Units produced in this City
Great Admiral: +5XP for Naval Units produced in this City

I like it. Good job.
Very happy to see the Ajaw promotions go away.

 

[Rekk]

UU1 - Atlatlist (replaces Composite Bowman)
Unlocked at Currency
Standard costs
13 (+1) 14
Indirect Fire

I think everyone agrees that this unit is OP just for being unlocked earlier, even after the strength nerf. This proposal moves it back but gives it +1 CS to compensate

Not to pick on your proposal specifically, but I think it was a mistake to give Atlatlists Indirect Fire and we could fix this now.

 

[hokath]

Yeah also from a realism perspective, if you've ever seen an Atlatl it's hard to understand how it could ever accomplish Indirect Fire.

 

[azum4roll]

Yeah also from a realism perspective, if you've ever seen an Atlatl it's hard to understand how it could ever accomplish Indirect Fire.

By throwing it so hard that the projectile pierces through trees and hills.

Realistically, none of early ranged units should have range 2.

 

[Urzamax]

I like all of these changes! The Ball Court promotions were interesting, but not all that impactful and kind of finicky, so repurposing it to give the UA a small bump is great.

 

[azum4roll]

If that was genuinely needed then it is not different enough from just adding the yields directly on unlock.

In this case, it actually makes a huge difference. Maya has a fixed research path, with Kuna always unlocked 2 techs before Mathematics. Adding +1 Science to base yields could mean reaching Mathematics a few turns earlier, which could mean everything for Maya.

 

[Rekk]

By throwing it so hard that the projectile pierces through trees and hills.

Realistically, none of early ranged units should have range 2.

There's a large difference in the abstraction of how far a ranged weapon can actually fire for mechanical reasons, and giving a weapon a property it never had for mechanical reasons.

 

[hokath]

MAGI:
Same as base except instead of
UnitPromotions_GoCrazyLongCount for the Ball Court promotion
it needs a
Building_YieldFromLastLongCount i.e. BuildingType, GreatPersonType, YieldType, Yield
But then also it needs some way of doing

Great Diplomat: +5% Production towards Diplomatic Units in this City
Great General: +5XP for Land Units produced in this City
Great Admiral: +5XP for Naval Units produced in this City

These guys as well
and
Great Musician: +1
this guy

Phew

 

[azum4roll]

The yields aren't just from the last long count - they last forever.

We can have
Building_YieldChangesFromLongCountGP (BuildingType, GreatPersonType, YieldType, Yieid)
and
Building_BonusFromLongCountGP (BuildingType, GreatPersonType, Happiness (0), DomainType (NULL), DomainXP (0), UnitCombatType (NULL), UnitProductionModifier (0)).

It's probably preferred to separate yields and other stuff since there are standardized functions to handle yield tables already in the DLL.

 

[Recursive]

Proposal sponsored by prior agreement from @azum4roll.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.