(8-36) 4UC Russia

[pineappledan]

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Russian civilization.

Spoiler Full kit with 4UC changes :

Spoiler Description of new components and changes to existing kit, differences from base component are underlined: :

UM - Licorne (replaces Field Gun):

Available at Metallurgy​

900 Production Cost​

2 Range​

2 Movement​

17 CS, 40 RCS​

Siege inaccuracy​

"Cover I"​

"bonus vs cities" (100)​

"Indirect fire"​

"Grapeshot" (+50% RCS vs melee and Gun units)​

"Can Move After Attacking"​

no "Moves at Half-Speed in Enemy Territory"​

UB - Pogost (replaces Customs House):

Available at Guilds​

350 Production Cost​

+2 Culture and +2 Gold​

Gains +2 Science at Banking​

Gains +2 Food at Economics​

Gains +2 Faith and Production at Railroad​

Gains +1 of All Yields at Industrialization ( )​

+1 Gold and Production to Villages and Towns​

1 Merchant Specialist Slot​

+4/2 Gold to all Trade Routes to/from this city respectively​

Tobacco Resources gain +3​

Coffee Resources gain +1 +2​

Tea Resources gain +2 +1​

Banana Resources gain +2​

 

[pineappledan]

Justification for 4UC additions:

Licorne
The Licorne is a unique field gun that can function as both an archer and a siege unit. With large bonuses against infantry units, and the ability to retreat after attack, the Field gun is a powerful aggressive tool for an expansionist civ.

Pogost
The Pogost is a modest economic boost to the Russian economy. The building gives boosts to villages and towns, already strong tiles on their own, and the building gets additional yields every tech level for the next 2 eras, resulting in a total of 18 base yields per city(!). Very powerful, if a bit uninteractive.
The main thing about the Pogost is that yields on tech unlock in the current DLL is very badly implemented. the tech unlock for extra yields is defined in a column in the building table, which means you can only define a single yield on tech. This really ought to be fixed, because the yields on tech unlock is extremely limited in its utility right now.

 

[azum4roll]

Implementation details: change Building_TechEnhancedYieldChanges table to also take a TechType. More buildings should use this feature.

The tech tree should also include an icon for each boost, just like improvements.

 

[rkkn]

a bit uninteractive

Indeed. Unlike most of the other UBs that have fun synergy with the rest of the civ's kit, Pogost is just a yield dump. Not very exciting.

 

[hokath]

Yeah was always surprised no yield on border expand or even a border growth point bonus of any kind.

 

[pineappledan]

The Ostrog has that beat pretty covered.

 

[hokath]

что ты имеешь в виду? It doesn't mention border growth at all.

 

[rkkn]

yeah I don't know either.
The great wall effect is technically about borders, but it's not a bonus that is improved by extending your borders. Since it only take effect when crossing into russian land, and does nothing after the units are already in, it's just as good with smaller borders, and in many situations actually better.

 

[Anarcomu]

yeah I don't know either.
The great wall effect is technically about borders, but it's not a bonus that is improved by extending your borders. Since it only take effect when crossing into russian land, and does nothing after the units are already in, it's just as good with smaller borders, and in many situations actually better.

Need confirmation, but last time I played against Russia, their UB works differently than the Great Wall :

• the Great wall expends all your movement point when enemy enter your territory,
• the Ostrog makes all movements cost one more point when enemies move into/through Russian territory

Which means that yes, it is interesting for Russia to control more territory.

 

[azum4roll]

the Ostrog makes all movements cost one more point when enemies move into/through Russian territory

It has NEVER worked this way. Same with Mine Field.

 

[Anarcomu]

My bad, I was very sure it worked like this, remembering it being annoying when playing against them.
I indeed just tested using IGE, the Ostrog works like the Great Wall. (except it does not obsolete btw)

 

[Stalker0]

My first reaction to the Licorne is..... its a 60 RCS unit that can just move like normal through territory, yowza!!! Without playtesting, my initial reaction is that seems like too much. Now if that replaced indirect fire ok thats an interesting trade off, but right now it just seems like a superweapon.

the Pogost seems pretty strong, not every building has to be some crazy interesting mechanic imo. the industrialization bonus might be a bit strong hard to guage at the moment.

 

[hokath]

In Civ IV they had a unique Research Lab.
I quite like that idea of pushing them more into science, but I understand that many people don't like a UB to come so late.

 

[pineappledan]

It’s a cool idea. Counterpropose!

 

[Hinin]

It’s a cool idea. Counterpropose!

The Naukograd as a unique Research Lab that rewards tech unlocks in different ways based on the ideology taken perhaps.

 

[pineappledan]

Is Soviet Russia fair game? Or is that strictly in the realm of ideologies?

 

[hokath]

Yes I don't see why not.

Germany has different yields on Unit Gift and on Policy (tenet) Unlock.
A mirrored bonus would be like different yields on Border Growth and Tech Unlock?

 

[azum4roll]

Germany's UB is a lot earlier than Research Lab. The earliest you can get Research Labs is actually through an Order tenet, and having a UB there will push them towards Order, despite having yields on all 3 ideologies.

 

[Urzamax]

Germany's UB is a lot earlier than Research Lab. The earliest you can get Research Labs is actually through an Order tenet, and having a UB there will push them towards Order, despite having yields on all 3 ideologies.

I mean, given that Order is pretty clearly modeled on Soviet Communism, gently pushing Russia in that direction (at least with a USSR-themed component like this) makes a fair amount of thematic sense.

 

[Phosphoraptor]

How about espionage? There arent many of those kinds of bonuses and soviet espionage was also very impactful