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8 Ages of Pace v2.1.0 Release

Makes the game run at a more comfortable pace

  1. Zarek

    Zarek Chieftain

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    oh... Might be the "Civilization 6 Improvements Patch" instead. I will post there. Sorry and thanks.
    -Zarek
     
  2. ITcore

    ITcore Chieftain

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    Olleus,

    May I use some or all of this mod in a personal mod that may or may not be released sometime in the future? Full credit will be given, of course. No worries if you don't want me to include it, I can remove the code without breaking anything.
     
  3. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    Feel free to use the code as you will! It's why I bothered to comment it and make it semi readable ;)

    On a different note, I've decided to address the turn count-calendar date problem in the game. Specifically, even when I feel like the eras are balanced and I spend the right amount of game time (aka, turns) in each era, the calendar date displayed rushes past so fast that I hit historical landmarks centuries or millennia early. The comments on Steam suggest that people agree. This is of course purely 'fluff' and doesn't affect actual gameplay at all, but it still bothers me a little. The current system in the game works like this (standard speed):
    Initial date Final dat # turns years / turn
    -4000 -1000 75 40
    -1000 500 60 25
    500 1000 25 20
    1000 1500 50 10
    1500 1800 60 5
    1800 1900 50 2
    1900 2020 120 1
    2020 2050 60 0.5


    There are in total 500 turns. In a well balanced game (which I hope 8AoP is), I would hope that each of the 8 eras last ~ 50 turns each, with an extra 100 turns 'for stragglers'. That certainly fits my anecdotal experience of how the game feels. With the vanilla date progression this means that I (roughly) hit the:
    Classical era at 2000BC, Medieval at 375BC, Renaissance at 800AD, Industrial at 1400AD, Modern at 1700AD, Atomic at 1860AD and finally Information era at 1930AD. These are all way too early to be historically sensible.

    I would much rather place those era changes closer to the real calendar date. My proposal (for standard speed is)
    Initial date Final dat # turns years / turn Era
    -4000 -2000 25 80.00 Ancient
    -2000 -1000 25 40.00 Ancient
    -1000 500 50 30.00 Classical
    500 1250 50 15.00 Medieval
    1250 1750 50 10.00 Renaissance
    1750 1900 50 3.00 Industrial
    1900 1950 50 1.00 Modern
    1950 2000 50 1.00 Atomic
    2000 2025 50 0.50 Information
    2025 2050 100 0.25 Future

    So the era changes would take place on the date of the first column (the ancient era is split in two for thematic reasons). Similar figures would exist for different game speeds; the exact numbers are different but roughly the same dates are hit for every 1/10th of the max number of turns played.

    Do these numbers seem about right to people? Would your games be more inline with real history with these numbers?
     
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  4. ITcore

    ITcore Chieftain

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    The only thing I would change is the initial date for the Classical age. Depending on what you define as the transition from Ancient to Classical, around 600 BCE would seem to be the sweet spot. It's roughly the start for most of the transition from bronze to iron and it's around the founding of Athenian democracy and the Roman republic. To drive the point even more, in-game you discover Iron Working and Political Philosophy in the Classical age.
     
  5. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    That would make sense. I was basing this more on the classical age starting after the Bronze Age collapse and the start of the Neo Syrian and Neo Babylonian empires
     
  6. ITcore

    ITcore Chieftain

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    The Bronze Age definitely ended sooner in the Asiatics than in Europe.

    Neo Syrian being the same as the Neo-Assyrians? I can't find anything on Neo Syrian otherwise. I don't know much about that region, so I'll defer to you on it. If it's the same, the empire that lead to the Neo-Babylonians then to the Achaemenids and so on and so forth, definitely seems like a good thing to read up on.
     
  7. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    Sorry, I meant Neo-Assyrians. The new kingdom in Egypt also fell around 1000BC. That said, my knowledge of that period is pretty superficial, I do see how ~500BC would make more sense from a Greco-Roman perspective.
     
  8. ITcore

    ITcore Chieftain

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    I figured as much, just wanted to make sure. The concept of Ancient to Classical isn't defined, so there really isn't a right or wrong answer. 1000 BCE works well for balance reasons, giving a smoother transition from the amount of turns per year from Ancient to Medieval.
     
  9. heinous_hat

    heinous_hat Chieftain

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    I think any time between 1300 and 600 BC is reasonable, given that "Classical" is such a relative term. If you're talking about materials technology, late 2nd millennium is probably more accurate. If language and literature is the marker, perhaps 500 years later. There's also a lot of natural drift in game, and the new split science/culture trees make it even more of a moving target.

    Firaxis actually used the civ5 progression (verbatim), which is why it's majorly out of whack. My guess is that they see their tech tree and yield progression as WIP, so they won't bother tuning it until later. It sure stands out though, doesn't it?
     
  10. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Chieftain

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    Ancient also has 3 tiers of techs, and civics are slow-going until you get some culture production up. The Ancient era lasts quite awhile in-game.
     
  11. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    okay, how about 800BC? Is that a happy medium for everyone?

    Remember that in practice ages will not last exactly 50 turns, so these numbers are all very rough estimates anyway
     
  12. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Chieftain

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    I thought 1000BC was fine, but I'm not picky.
     
  13. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    Not an 'official' release, but if you want to try the new calendar progression and give me some feedback, here is the latest version of the mod. I'd recommend you delete the steam version, unsubscribe from it and put this in the local mod folder.

    If you are kind enough to give feedback I'd love to know at what turn number and date you entered new eras (and the same for the leading AI in your game). Of course, include the game speed, difficulty, and whether you felt you were playing particularly well or if you were lagging somewhat.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Chieftain

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    You should probably also list any other mods you are using that affect game balance in any way whatsoever.
     
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  15. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    Olleus updated 8 Ages of Pace with a new update entry:

    Calendar Update

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
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  16. Smity2k1

    Smity2k1 Chieftain

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  17. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    So here are my timings for my first complete game. Epic, Small Continents map as China on Emperor (my 'comfortable' difficulty). Mods active are 8AoP, 8AoW, AI+ and a few minor ones that shouldn't matter here. I did very little warring and mostly concentrated on grabbing tons of early game wonders and then getting large, powerful cities. I'd consider this a relaxed game and I'm happy with the timings I got. I entered the eras at:
    Classical: 850BC, Medieval 352AD, Renaissance 938AD, Industrial 1446AD, Modern 1775AD, Atomic 1922AD, Information 1967AD
    With the AI slightly ahead of me at Classical and medieval and then gradually falling behind (except Kongo). I was most ahead at Ren/Ind/Mod, but that's when my strategy was always going to pay off the highest dividends. With only 8 cities, I struggled with the massive research costs of the late game until I got research labs online.

    If you have similar 'reports' please share and we can fine tune the numbers.

    In other news: 8 Ages of Pace has 20,000 active subscribers on steam! It's always nice to see a project go this well, if you enjoy this mod and haven't done so already, please consider giving a thumbs up, I want to see how high up the rankings we can push it.
     
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  18. Leyrann

    Leyrann Warlord

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    20,000! You're famous!
     

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