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8 Ages of Pace v2.1.0 Release

Makes the game run at a more comfortable pace

  1. Hanny

    Hanny Chieftain

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  2. Leyrann

    Leyrann Warlord

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    You made this post in 8AoW, and I wanted to know whether you think 8AoP will break as well, and it does, would it be possible to remove some files and leave some to at least have the slower eras (with possible adjustments depending on what feels right) left?
     
  3. Magil

    Magil Monarch

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    It looks to me like 8AoP is safe to use with Rise and Fall.
     
  4. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    Is it balanced though? I can think of a few potential issues:
    1) science per pop has been reduced, do the tech rate could be too slow now
    2) global era is calculated differently, do slowing down tech could make it super weird
    3) eras being slower make it too easy to get enough points for golden ages
     
  5. Leyrann

    Leyrann Warlord

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    My experience without 8AoP:

    Late game techs still too cheap, additionally all eras (except, it seems, Modern Era, which is the next one) have come almost as early as possible. This is on Emperor.

    Suggestions (if you intend to update it for R&F, otherwise I'm gonna try figure out how to do it myself):

    1. A bit of a lighter version of 8AoP to slow down techs. I already tweaked my own 8AoP file to do this because I felt it was too heavy in the base game, but I think I would have to tweak it a bit further. (I also removed the faster road movement and slower city growth but that's unrelated)
    2. If Golden Ages are too easy (independent of eras getting longer because of 8AoP or not), increase base threshold from 12 to 15 for both Normal and Golden Age, maybe increase change in required score after Dark/Golden age from 5 to 6.

    I would note though, that the era score seems fine at least for the early era's. I felt like I was doing pretty well in the classical era, but didn't manage to get a Golden Age. After that I started snowballing out of control though, and I'm now like 15 above the threshold with more than 10 turns to go still, and this will be my third Golden Age in a row. Then again, I did get 6 French cities from conquering + loyalty flipping.
     
    Olleus likes this.
  6. MagicCuboid

    MagicCuboid Chieftain

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    This is going to be really tricky to balance, for exactly your experience of getting many golden ages. The difficulty in balancing era score points is that they accumulate throughout the game, so a few extra points per era can really add up.
     
  7. Leyrann

    Leyrann Warlord

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    I'm now playing a game with Tamar (great for stacking Golden Ages on top of one another) and I got a GA in the medieval era, which I used for Exodus of the Evangelists, but even with the superpowered missionaries and apostles and era score for every converted city I only got the required era score for another Golden Age in the LAST turn, and that was because I chopped my first UU.

    So I think it's much better balanced if you're not totally snowballing out of control. But yeah, maybe it should be something like a base of 8 or 10 required (instead of 12), -5 for every Dark Age, +8 (instead of +5) for every Golden Age and then most importantly +2 (instead of +1) for every city you have, because simply having more cities to build things and everything seems to be a good era score generator.

    Edit: And the very next era I am far, far ahead of the points required for a Golden Age, but then again I did convert several civilizations with my wave of Proseletyzers (+ a bunch of Debaters for stray apostles from others)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  8. Magil

    Magil Monarch

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    As for being balanced... I'm not sure. I feel like I'm getting way ahead of the game era, which suggests to me teching isn't too slow, but there is something else going on that is making the game eras pass too slowly. I'm honestly not sure if it's related to 8AoP or not, because I know Firaxis implemented a "minimum" period of X turns per era, and it could be that I'm simply teching too fast for that.
     
  9. Buni0ns

    Buni0ns Chieftain

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    RE: Ballance

    Perhaps? Rather I guess one would say, it depends.

    This is pretty unscientific and "feels like" type observations so take it with a grain of salt. I also play with Magil's wonderous wonders so that has it's own effects as well.

    With all that pre-amble out of the way, I think that Rise and Fall have made the game even more map dependant. So much so that luck of the draw / map layout is going to have a pretty hearty effect as to whether one snowballs or not.

    I feel like 8AoP has a synergizing effect based on the other prevalant conditions. Kind of like a multiplier of extant forces. When you're snowballing 8AoP won't stop you at all, but when you're struggling or in the hole, 8AoP is very noticable then.

    Like I said tho that's all kinda gut reaction however, so what the hell do I know...
     
  10. Gattamelata

    Gattamelata Chieftain

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    My experience playing with 8AoP in Rise and Fall on Marathon settings is that I no longer have that old 8AoP feeling of getting to spend a lot of time in each era. I used to play and have many turns when cities had no additional buildings they could create - this is not the case in my R&F game. I'm once again struggling to keep my development abreast of my technology advancement.
     
  11. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    Thanks for the thoughts. I still don't have R&F (no time to play it) but I've been getting feedback here and lots on steam. Here are my thoughts:

    1) No changes to the calendar, I want to keep it at historical era starting dates every 50 turns.

    2) In R&F, the science per pop was reduced from 0.7 to 0.5. The patch notes for Vanilla said they also did this, but apparently they did not. To keep the version of the mod unified, I'd reduce science per pop to 0.5 for Vanilla too. In order to stop science grinding to a halt, I'd also change the extra cost of techs according to (current value->new value)
    ERA_ANCIENT 0 -> 0
    ERA_CLASSICAL 25 -> 15
    ERA_MEDIEVAL 50 -> 35
    ERA_RENAISSANCE 80 -> 65
    ERA_INDUSTRIAL 120 -> 105
    ERA_MODERN 160 -> 145
    ERA_ATOMIC 210 -> 190
    ERA_INFORMATION 260 -> 240

    3) The era thresholds need to change, to make it somewhat harder to avoid dark ages, and much harder to get consecutive golden ages. The formula is:
    limit_in_next_era_dark = previous_score + DARK_AGE_SCORE_BASE_THRESHOLD + city_num + (DARK/GOLD_AGE_THRESHOLD_SHIFT * number of dark/gold ages you had)
    and presumably equivalent for the next golden age.
    and the values are:
    "DARK_AGE_SCORE_BASE_THRESHOLD" = 12
    "GOLDEN_AGE_SCORE_BASE_THRESHOLD" = 24
    "THRESHOLD_SHIFT_PER_PAST_DARK_AGE" = -5
    "THRESHOLD_SHIFT_PER_PAST_GOLDEN_AGE" = +5

    From what I've heard, in the first few eras it's only a little too easy to get a golden age and avoid a dark one. So I'd raise 12->14 and 24->28. The bigger probably seems to be chaining golden ages together. So I'd change the -5/+5 to -10/+10. Doubling it might seem harsh, but it might be needed, both to fix the base game, and to adapt it to the longer eras.

    I've got a few questions:
    Did the cost of techs change with the patch or R&F? If so, then 2) should be adjusted.
    Is the formula for the era thresholds above correct? Or at least consistent with peoples experience.
    Does the minimum/maximum length of game eras also need to be adjusted?
    How do the numbers I've got above sound to people?
     
  12. Abd121

    Abd121 Chieftain

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    >Does the minimum/maximum length of game eras also need to be adjusted?

    I don't think so, too long and you always get a golden age, too short and you'll get too many dark ages.
     
  13. Magil

    Magil Monarch

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    (1) No, but boosts were reduced to 40% instead of 50%, in Rise and Fall at least. In addition, techs behind the current game era are reduced in cost by 20%, while techs ahead of the current game era are increased in cost by 20%.
    (2) Looks like your numbers are accurate to me. Based on GlobalParameters.xml.
    (3) My experience is that they should probably be a bit shorter. But, that may be based on my playstyle.
    (4) My opinion would be that your numbers at the top-level are probably good, but I might hold off on lowering the cost of the techs for the first few eras. I feel those are in a good place, like, Medieval-Industrial all seems good.
     

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