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8 Ages of War v1.3.0 Release

Overhaul of promotions for land units as well as nerfing of ranged units and small boost to the mili

  1. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
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    6,294
    Location:
    England
    Installation instructions
    Download (link to top right of this page) and unzip into your mod folder. The file path should be read
    .../My Documents/My Games/Sid Meier's Civilization VI/Mods/8 Ages of War/8AgesOfWar.modinfo
    When creating a new game go to additional content and click 'enable mod'. When loading games afterwards, this is not necessary.

    Description
    Does warfare feel slightly wrong to you in Civilization 6? Do you get annoyed that spamming archers is the solution to every problem? Tired of useless promotions like 'Commando' that just get in the way?

    Then 8 Ages of War is the mod for you! The aim is to turn the art of war in Civilization 6 into something more balanced, more interesting, and more immersive. Currently this involves redoing promotions for all land units, a nerf to range units and a boost to military engineers. This includes fixing numerous bugs in the vanilla promotions and rewriting the tool tips to make them explicit. Future plans include giving players a way of defending themselves if they lack resources, preventing submarines from raiding in land and a shift in the way the late game works by adding units such as the mortar and paratroopers.

    This mod will not be dealing with the AI. Excellent mods that deal with this already exist, such as Siesta Guru's AI+

    Compatibility
    No issues with compatibility reported so far. Clashes are expected with mods that also affect promotions or ranged units or the military engineer.

    I recommend using this mod in conjunction with AI+ and 8 Ages of Pace

    Change Log
    Promotions for the 6 land unit classes have been redone. To make the descriptions as clear as possible melee combat is called "close-quarter" combat while the warrior/swordsman/... line of units is called "melee class". A similar distinction has been made between ranged attacks and attacks specifically from a "range class" unit (slinger/archer/...). The aim is to make every promotion a reward and useful, while preventing them from being overpowered and blurring the distinction between the unit classes.

    The new promotions for the melee and anti-cavalry line of units are
    Spoiler :


    This allows melee class units to specialise either in fighting in the field against similar units, or urban fighting against similar units. The anti-calvalry class can either further boost their skill against horses, or can improve their front line durability (specially useful if you are lacking in resources).


    For ranged and siege units the new promotions are
    Spoiler :


    Ranged units start off by picking their target choice, and then specialising either in moving into attack or in defending their home territory. The hugely overpowered attack-twice promotion has been removed. Siege units have to pick between survivability and offensive power.


    And lastly the two cavalry lines
    Spoiler :


    Light cavalry can either be used as a stand alone scout/raider, or as a supporting flanking force to your main army. Heavy cavalry gets bonuses which either help it in a front line role or to hunt other cavalry. Absurd bonuses to urban fighting have been removed, but if you use all four branches you can have a reasonably balanced army consisting only of cavalry!


    Changes to existing units are
    Spoiler :

    • Military engineer now has 4 build charges rather than 2
    • Military engineer now acts as battering ram
    • All ranged 2 land units have had their combat strength and ranged combat reduced by 10. An archer is now just a range 2 slinger.
    • Ranged 1 land units (Saka horse archer, crouching tiger cannon, etc...) have had their combat and ranged combat strength reduced by 5.


    Known Issues
    Loading a saved game from within an existing game will cause the localisation text to not load properly. The game will still function fine, but you wont be able to read the names or description of the promotions. This is solved by quiting to desktop and relaunching the game. This bug is due to the way Civ6 vanilla handles mods and cannot be fixed by me at the moment.
    I have extensively tested the new promotions so I am confident that they are triggered when they should. However I couldn't do exhaustive testing so it is likely that something has slipped through the net. Please post here if you find a bug!

    What about the AI?
    I haven't touched the AI, unfortunately there seems to be no way to tell it when to pick which promotions. However, as the promotions are more balanced now what ever it picks is going to be of some use to it. Combined with the large nerf archers have received it (now just range 2 slingers) the game is somewhat harder.
     
    criminal and FangoriousFae like this.
  2. Smogs

    Smogs Chieftain

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    Love the initial look of this.

    Do you believe this mod adequately helps the melee classes enough (melee and anti-cav)? It's pretty widely agreed upon that they're awful and basically always inferior to calvary just due to the 2 movement and how terrain works in Civ 6. Do you think this mod helps close that gap a bit? If not, is that something you are even trying to address in this mod?
     
    Mglo likes this.
  3. thecrazyscot

    thecrazyscot Spiffy

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
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    1,543
    My poor Improved Military Engineer mod. ;)

    This looks quite good. A few initial comments:
    1. I'm skeptical about the "Drill" promotion for the anti-cavalry line. I can see its utility in trying to reposition anti-cavalry when they're poorly placed in flat terrain, but if you're carefully positioning your units anyways it will have very limited usefulness, as any units well-placed for defense will not benefit from it. Have you thought about a promotion which allows them to ignore ZOC perhaps?
    2. Any plans to redo the Recon promotion tree? Commando might actually have a good home there...
     
    Littlebob86 likes this.
  4. RushSecond

    RushSecond Chieftain

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    Well it's a start. I've got a smaller criticism and a much, much bigger one.

    Most of the new promotion lines look pretty good, but I wonder why the anti-cavalry's last promotion, Hold the Line, is gone. Giving it's anti-cavalry bonus to other units is awesome and a really cool reward for getting an anti-cav to lvl 5. Similary thing for ranged units, yeah double-attacking was OP but replacing it with a measly +7 strength is kinda lame.

    The big thing here is... my god. The metagame has been incredibly misread here. Ranged units are not a problem, horses are. Light and heavy cavalry just have better strength and mobility for their cost compared to everything else, and enough of them attacking together completely annihilate a line of ranged units. The nerf to ranged units should be undone, and instead look at nerfing all the horses instead.
     
    alexanderyou likes this.
  5. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    Ranged units where a problem, virtually everyone agrees that building a bunch of archers is how to start the game. Not receiving damage when attacking is huge, as is the ability to concentrate power. The problem was exacerbated with promotions that gave them a boost in every situation. I find that they are still helpful to have, but can no longer conquer a continent with 3 archers and a swordsman. The marksman promotion now is actually quite strong, it's one of the highest bonuses (+7) and applies in the widest possible situations (against all land units).

    I agree that cavalry units are too strong, I'm looking into doing three things about that
    1) Reduce the policies that speed them up (does the patch do that already?)
    2) Remove their ability to get terrain defense and fortifying bonuses
    3) Increasing the based strength of anti-cavalry unit
    I think that removing the promotions that they had against districts and improving the melee and anti-cav promotion already went some way towards rebalancing them. Do you think that's enough? Is more needed? I'd like to change their "Ignore ZoC" ability to "Moving through ZoC requires double movement points" but I think adding that into the game might be a little challenging.

    As for the anti-cavalry line I'm completely open to changes. Drill might be a little weak, but combined with move after attack I think it could be very useful. Gives you more flexibility in pulling back after attack. Hold the line isn't gone, it's been reduced in strength and moved much earlier the promotion tree.

    I didn't touch the recon tree because I rather liked it. Commando might make sense there, but I still struggle to imagine a situation where I would actually want to pick it.
     
  6. lohaller

    lohaller Chieftain

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    Interesting idea but i dont agree at all about the changes, sure archers are decent until horsmen comes along. But the real problem are the cavalry line, the strength, mobility and how quickly you can get horsmen and knights in the tech tree.
    I think an alternative way of balancing the combat is to increase the strength and maybe a mobility promotion of melee and anti cavalry units, this would indirectly nerf archers while not leaving them useless against cavalry.
    The changes you listed would be a great addition and i would like to try the mod if these get implemented.
     
  7. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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  8. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    I think that's the real problem. Not enough connections in the tech tree means you can get horsemen before spearmen in many cases. I was hoping to avoid doing changes to the tech tree (already mods out there that do that, and it's so glaring that Firaxis ought to do it themselves), but I will fix it myself if people think it's important enough.
     
  9. nametaken

    nametaken Chieftain

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    Thanks Olleus for this mod and your pacing mod. My only suggestion is maybe to change the frenzy promotion on the melee units, if only because its a useless promotion for the Samurai as I believe it already has the same innate ability.
     
  10. Daft73

    Daft73 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Question for @Olleus..Is the number of available promotions capped?

    ie Hypothetically could you have a larger promotion tree say your promotions and the vanilla? Assuming they were all different.
     
  11. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    I dont think the number of promotions is capped, but I haven't tried. You should be able to make them wider or deeper. I may do this myself in the future, but it's a lot of work and I haven't got any ideas about what to add.

    Frenzy is a problem for the samurai (like amphibious is for redcoats and berzerkers, to a lesser degree). Any suggestions for what to change it to? I'm also considering changing scavenge for light cavalry from a very strong heal every turn to a weaker 'heal in enemy territory as if it was friendly territory'.

    As for horses being too strong I'm thinking of:
    1) Make the anti-cav bonus +12 instead of +10 (make the melee bonus vs anti-cav units +12 as well for consistency and so warrior can still beat a spearman)
    2) Make spears strength 28 (rather than 25), and pikes 45 (rather than 41)
    3) Cut Horsemen down to 30 (from 35) and cavalry down to 55 (rather 62)
    4) Horseback riding requires bronze working
    5) Stirrups requires construction

    Is this enough? Too much? I dont have enough experience in fighting modern wars against a level AI to know what needs changing there
     
  12. NameArleadyUsed

    NameArleadyUsed Chieftain

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    Idea: Could you try to add generic (empty) promotion when all other promotions are earned, so we can heal unit after it reaches 7th level?
     
  13. Daft73

    Daft73 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Thank you for the response Olleus, the answer was mostly what I was looking for. :thumbsup:
     
  14. txn

    txn Chieftain

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    Slingers are getting the -5 strength so it looks like "AND (UnitType != "UNIT_SLINGER" OR UnitType != "UNIT_BARBARIAN_HORSE_ARCHER");" is not working. There is not a combat preview or visible experience gain for slingers which looks like it is caused by the 0 combat strength. I added + 5 to strength to offset this and the combat preview and experience gains returned.

    -- Work around for slinger and barbarian horse archer
    UPDATE Units
    SET Combat = Combat + 5, RangedCombat = RangedCombat + 5
    WHERE (UnitType = "UNIT_SLINGER" OR UnitType = "UNIT_BARBARIAN_HORSE_ARCHER");

    Other than that it looks good so far. Thanks for the mod.
     
  15. V. Soma

    V. Soma CFC Staff

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    When getting the promotion I see code strings text instead of english text in the panel...

    EDIT:
    re-enabling the mod made it OK :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  16. Lewi11

    Lewi11 Chieftain

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    Anyone know if this mod is compatible with 8 Ages of War?
     
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  17. NameArleadyUsed

    NameArleadyUsed Chieftain

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  18. Lewi11

    Lewi11 Chieftain

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    LOL!
    Too many tabs open. I meant is it compatible with Unit Rebalance Mod 1.1?
     
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  19. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    No idea about compatibility with Unit Rebalance. I expect that it should work, but I can't be sure. Try it out and let us know?

    Oops, thanks for catching that. This is what happens when you make a last minute change just before uploading...

    Will upload a new version with this and a few other minor bug fixes
     
  20. Littlebob86

    Littlebob86 Chieftain

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    I know I asked somewhere else on one of the forums, but have you came across anyway to change scythia so that she doesn't get a free horse, but maybe something like a 50% boost to the next one?? I too agree that horses are pretty full on
     

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