[DLL] (8-NS) 4UC Carthage - Asamu at Sailing instead of Tophet

[hokath]

(8-09) 4UC Carthage

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Carthaginian civilization. Unlike other threads, Carthage is due to go through a rework, so I cannot post a preview of the new base VP kit Proposed abilities differ from the abilities as they are implemented in...

forums.civfanatics.com

and then

(8-09a) 4UC Carthage - Asamu instead of Tophet

Current : UB - Tophet (replaces Shrine): Available at Agriculture 65 :c5production: Production cost +1 :c5culture: Culture, +2 :c5faith: Faith Gain +20 :c5culture: Culture whenever a Unit is purchased, scaling with Era. Proposal : Replace the Tophet with the Asamu. Unique Civilian - Asamu...

forums.civfanatics.com

I'm not a huge fan of a unique Shrine, but a unique Settler is a huge change similar in scope to Merchant of Venice. It's too much for me.
Here is an alternative Asamu for your consideration.

Unique Civilian - Asamu (replaces Pioneer Unique Civilian Class)

Unlocked at Sailing (doesn't replace anything)
Becomes obsolete at Railroad (upgrades into Pioneer)
Cannot be produced
Must be purchased with Gold (cost increased with number of Cities) and can move immediately once purchased
Only one can exist at the same time => you must expend the existing one to purchase another (prevents purchase exploits)
Does not consume Citizens when purchased

2 MP / 2 Vision
Defensive Embarkation
Double Movement in Coast Tiles, Kept on Upgrade
Ignores Terrain Cost, Kept on Upgrade
Can be expended to found a City. When founding a City, provides:

Spoiler as compared to pioneer :

('BUILDINGCLASS_MONUMENT'),
('BUILDINGCLASS_SHRINE'),
('BUILDINGCLASS_GRANARY'),
('BUILDINGCLASS_GROVE'), this is a council
('BUILDINGCLASS_LODGE'),
('BUILDINGCLASS_HERBALIST'),
('BUILDINGCLASS_MARKET'),
('BUILDINGCLASS_BARRACKS'),
('BUILDINGCLASS_LIBRARY'),
('BUILDINGCLASS_COLOSSEUM'),
('BUILDINGCLASS_FORGE'),
('BUILDINGCLASS_WELL'), -- no river only
('BUILDINGCLASS_WATERMILL'); -- river only
('BUILDINGCLASS_LIGHTHOUSE');

Settler cost increases with number of cities but I think it's more interesting if the cost of this unit doesn't scale. Because you can only have 1 at once, there is a sensible limit placed on the speed of expansion using the unit.
What should be the cost? For a scout its only around 200, which is too low. Originial proposal was along the lines of 300 + 100 per extra city.
So I think a number like 500 Gold might be reasonable.
---------------------------------------
Suffet is unchanged

 

[rkkn]

the heck is a grove?

Also important questions:
Does settler continue to obsolete at banking? meaning you can still build regular settlers during classical/medieval in addition to having the option to purchase Asamus. (This is typically the case for UUs with an early unlock)
Can settlers be upgraded into Asamus?

 

[Pipiskus]

I mean it certainly better than Hinin's Asamu, just by the fact that it doesnt replace Setler, but i also dont get why did you make your Asamu replace Pioneer.
Why just not make it a standalone unit? I think you either should do that or make it evolve thhrough eras, just like Tibetan Dob dob, so it would match Pioneer's qualities when it opens up at Banking (i think?)
Or it maybe even better to make in evolve till the end of the game if you want it to match Carthage's UA philosophy. Maybe with this method it would be even appropriate to make it start from the setler (replace it and delete the rest of setler type unit), and evolve it from there but you would need to think thoroughly the cost question though.
I also believe that Unit should be able to swim faster and ignore terrain's costs to reflect Carthage's colonial history

 

[Rekk]

Unique Civilian - Asamu (replaces Pioneer)
[IMG alt="Asamu_UnitIcon256.png"]https://forums.civfanatics.com/attachments/asamu_uniticon256-png.694010/[/IMG]

Image is broken.

 

[hokath]

the heck is a grove?

Also important questions:
Does settler continue to obsolete at banking? meaning you can still build regular settlers during classical/medieval in addition to having the option to purchase Asamus. (This is typically the case for UUs with an early unlock)
Can settlers be upgraded into Asamus?

Sorry, Grove refers to the Council building in the code.
Settler still upgrades to Pioneer -- currently this UU -- and obsoletes at Banking. These are things defined on the Settler itself and can't be changed.

Why just not make it a standalone unit?

Yes losing the Pioneer might be quite undesirable in that mid game section so this can stand alone -- edited.

I also believe that Unit should be able to swim faster and ignore terrain's costs to reflect Carthage's colonial history

We have fast swim already (on Coast, not Ocean as you cannot enter Ocean when this is around atm) but I can add Ignores Terrain Cost

Image is broken.

Fixed. I'll also look into reducing its resolution to better fit the style.

 

[rkkn]

Yes losing the Pioneer might be quite undesirable in that mid game section so this can stand alone -- edited.

first bold line still says it replaces pioneer

 

[Nightmare Dusk]

While i have no issue with the tophet, i think this would be an interesting and exciting change

 

[azum4roll]

I fail to see how this is interesting. You trade 500 Gold for some Production, 1 Population, and 4 buildings in the new city. Unless you rush straight to Sailing, it's past the first wave of expansion so you're left with space for at most 3 cities.

The other use case is rushing for Astronomy and use it as a way worse Pioneer that doesn't require Banking.

 

[hokath]

In my last game, which was as Carthage, I got Sailing quite fast, maybe Tech 6 or 7. I had a 2 Forest Cinnamon and 1 Crab start, so I skipped chop to get Market +1/+1 on Cinnamon instead.
+Science from Luxuries helps you get Sailing v fast -- though as I said I actually missed out on 2 in my Capital for a while!
It also doesn't consume citizens, which is a big help, and it moves much faster along coast so you save crucial turns getting up island cities.

I found in this game Tophet really is quite powerful. The culture bonus contributes to border growth, and it procs on all units even Missionaries!
It's quite a fun effect, but together with the UA I think probably far too much power so early in the game.

 

[pineappledan]

I’m kind if biased against this because it’s using a civilian slot for a unit that obsoletes. Unique replacements for Econ bonuses like UBs and stuff don’t normally do that.

Hinin also proposed a different unique settler unit for Sweden (Jarl), and that is an idea I’m much more interested in trying to work out.

 

[Nightmare Dusk]

I’m kind if biased against this because it’s using a civilian slot for a unit that obsoletes. Unique replacements for Econ bonuses like UBs and stuff don’t normally do that.

Hinin also proposed a different unique settler unit for Sweden (Jarl), and that is an idea I’m much more interested in trying to work out.

After looking at the jarl, it's a much more interesting settler idea. I would rather have that one past then this one, but i still like the idea of civilian UU. Atm only venice and iroquios have one if irc (in 4uc), and could open more uniqueness between civs if civilian uu become more common. (UU workers, UU settlers, UU missionaries, UU great people, UU trade ships, etc.)

 

[azum4roll]

Most of those are not interesting, since you can always make a building that boosts them instead. (And when you start comparing a unique worker to a building that boosts it, you start noticing that you need a LOT more abilities on the worker to make it worth a unique slot)

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.