[DLL] (8-NS) 4UC Huns

[pineappledan]

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Hunnic civilization.

Unlike other threads, the Huns are due to go through a rework, so I cannot post a preview of the new base VP kit

Spoiler 4UC components as they appear in-game :

Spoiler Description of 4UC components :

UM - Tarkhan (replaces Horseman):

available at Military Theory​

90 Production Cost​

Does not require Horses​

14 CS​

4 Movement​

"Migration" (Settler units stacked with this unit gain the same movement speed as the Tarkhan (same as stacked GGeneral movement from vanilla)​

"Bellum Alet" (Unit Heals adjacent Friendly Units by 15 HP on Pillage)​

​

UW - Ulticur (replaces Ironworks):

available at Physics​

requires Forge in the city​

Production cost scales with number of cities​

+10 Production, +3 Culture and +3 Science​

+2 Iron resource​

+2 Gold every turn for each City-State you can demand tribute from​

+2 Production and +2 Culture to all Stables​

25 Science for every Construction​

+2 Happiness for each major civilization currently at war with you​

 

[pineappledan]

Reserved

 

[azum4roll]

"Bellum Alet" (Unit Heals adjacent Friendly Units by 15 HP on Pillage)

Does it include itself, or (civilian) units on the same tile?

 

[pineappledan]

Does it include itself, or (civilian) units on the same tile?

Not as implemented, no. The Tarkhan gets the standard 25 HP. No effect for stacked units

 

[azum4roll]

My questions usually mean "if you want it to happen this way if it's implemented in the DLL".

 

[pineappledan]

Just adjacent units

 

[Stalker0]

Ulticur.... the tribute interaction seems strange. For one, you very rarely can maintain tribute on more than 1-2 CS at once, it just spreads your army too thin (or frankly its too much micro work). But then as soon as you tribute a CS, you can't tribute it for a while so you lose the gold bonus. So it actually makes going for a tribute weaker. Otherwise the build seems fine enough.

The Tarkhan, at first glance I think having 1 of these units to augment your horse archers seems reasonable, especially since they don't consume horses. But....does the upgrade stay? I don't mind it in the ancient era because there is so little to pillage. But man once you get rolling into the later eras that heal bonus becomes insanely good.

 

[KlHannibal2]

Ulticur.... the tribute interaction seems strange. For one, you very rarely can maintain tribute on more than 1-2 CS at once, it just spreads your army too thin (or frankly its too much micro work). But then as soon as you tribute a CS, you can't tribute it for a while so you lose the gold bonus. So it actually makes going for a tribute weaker. Otherwise the build seems fine enough.

The Tarkhan, at first glance I think having 1 of these units to augment your horse archers seems reasonable, especially since they don't consume horses. But....does the upgrade stay? I don't mind it in the ancient era because there is so little to pillage. But man once you get rolling into the later eras that heal bonus becomes insanely good.

I agree on the Ulticur. Also, I find the yields quite low. The Tarkan had more utility when it was able to convert barbs.

 

[pineappledan]

Overall grade: B-
There is not much historical material to work with for the Huns. We pretty much made components of the only things that are attested to in the historical record. It turned out well enough, for what it is worth.

Tarkhan
Theme - B. The Tarkhan were minor clan leaders. As a result, their bonuses are centered around support.
Mechanics - A. pillage bonus is a reverse of the AOE damage on pillage that already exists. This bonus was originally conceived when Huns had the unit conversion on kill bonus that resulted in lots of badly damaged units polluting your front line. This bonus was designed to make those sacrificial meat shields a little meatier. Even without that UA synergy, I think the ability is still pretty neat. The migration ability is pure flavor. It has its uses, but could just as well be dropped. An early unique horseman is already a pretty big advantage without them also allowing you to settle faster.
Uniqueness - A. There is only 1 other unique horseman and it’s a fully aggressive chariot unit, rather than a support unit. This unit’s unique ability is a major advantage when trying to siege down or keep momentum on an early war.

Ulticur
Theme - B. The Six horns council, or Ulticur, is the key commonality between the Hunnic culture as it appeared in Europe in the 4th century and the Xiongnu that terrorized Han China for centuries before that. The putative link between Xiongnu and Hun rests entirely on this political institution.
Mechanics - C. The UB gives passive income from city-states that are afraid of you, happiness for each war you are in simultaneously, and a few other goodies besides. It amplifies Huns’ existing war and happiness bonuses, but little else.
Uniqueness - C. The bonuses are relatively minor and don’t create any meaningful decisions in my own tests with the civ. Still, they are appreciated.

 

[Stalker0]

MAGI: Need some clarification on the migration ability. Exactly how does the mechanic work?

 

[pineappledan]

"Migration" (transfers Movement to settler units stacked on the same tile (same as stacked GGeneral movement from vanilla)

As coded in the 4UC mod now it gives +1 movement to a settler if it starts its turn stacked with a Tarkhan. The proposal is to alter it so the promotion’s function is consistent with pre-existing movement transfer abilities in the game.

 

[Stalker0]

As coded in the 4UC mod now it gives +1 movement to a settler if it starts its turn stacked with a Tarkhan. The proposal is to alter it so the promotion’s function is consistent with pre-existing movement transfer abilities in the game.

so how does it work in the proposal? Does the settler get all of the movement from the tarkhan (and the tarkhan gets 0?).

 

[pineappledan]

It works how the old Hakkapeliitta promotion works: it gives the stacked settler unit the same movement as the Tarkhan.

 

[Stalker0]

It works how the old Hakkapeliitta promotion works: it gives the stacked settler unit the same movement as the Tarkhan.

perfect, I have updated the description with this note

 

[pineappledan]

It literally already does. It’s right there.

 

[Stalker0]

It literally already does. It’s right there.

with respect, I read it several times and I didn't understand how it worked, so a little clarity added hurts nothing.

 

[hokath]

MAGI:
Tarkhan Migration promotion is done with lua so we need a new column like the one that gives Great Generals movement
Tarkhan AoE heal promotion needs a column in UnitPromotions also

Ulticur needs a Building_YieldsPerAfraid table
Ulticur needs a HappinessPerWar column in Buildings

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.