[DLL] (8-NS) 4UC Venice

[pineappledan]

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Venetian civilization.

Spoiler Full kit with 4UC changes :

Spoiler Description of new components and changes to existing kit, differences from base component are underlined: :

UM2 - Fusta (Unique Naval ranged unit, parallel to base Galleass):

available at Guilds​

125 Production Cost​

No Gold Maintenance or Supply Cost​

5 Movement Points​

10 CS, 20 RCS (-4, -4 from Galleass)​

1 Range​

Sentry (+1 vision)​

"Can move after attacking"​

"Shallow Draft"​

"Cannot melee attack"​

UB - Banco Giro (replaces Bank):

Available at Banking​

500 Production Cost​

+3 Gold +3 ​

2 Merchant Specialist slots​

15% of unit purchases and building investments using Gold in this city are converted to Science​

+3Gold to Caravansary and Customs House in this City​

+3 Food and +3Gold to Rialto District for each Banco Giro on empire​

+2 Production and Science to Arsenale di Venezia for each Banco Giro on empire​

+2 Culture and Tourism to Murano Glassworks for each Banco Giro on empire​

4% of Gold generated in this city each turn is converted into Great Merchant Points​

Gold: +3 ​

Silver: +1 //​

Gems: +1 +2 ​

 

[pineappledan]

Venice kit is one that I feel benefits most overtly from 4UC. the main mod civ has no military unique unit. The civ also has a unique great person, but no mechanic to help them generate more of them except for a free one at Trade.

4UC rectifies this by giving Venice a 2-for-1 unique unit, the combination of the Great Galleass and the Fusta:
The Great Galleass is just a stronger Galleass that gives Venice a military edge with conventional strength
The Fusta is a weaker galleass with lower CS and RCS, but it costs no maintenance or supply. This allows Venice to purchase Fusta to cover its trade routes with vision and a modest amount of protection. With this uniquely spammable unit, Venice has a means of policiing the shipping lanes without worrying about the constraints of its low supply, or burdening itself with excessive gold upkeep.
With the combination of 2 unique replacements of the same base component, Venice has a unique bifurcated UU, giving them the option of two different tools depending on their situation.

The Banco Giro portrays Venice's incredible contributions to banking and accounting. In-game, the component gives Venice a unique method of generating Great Merchant Points which they currently don't have.

 

[azum4roll]

With Rialto District giving 2 merchant slots, that's a LOT of merchants... I'd remove the extra from the bank.

 

[rkkn]

Fusta appears to have Sentry, but that's not listed in the text version

With Rialto District giving 2 merchant slots, that's a LOT of merchants... I'd remove the extra from the bank.

Disagree. Rialto is only one of three options. 67% of the time Venice is left with less ability to produce merchants than other civs.

 

[pineappledan]

Perhaps Rialto could be switch to 2 scientist slots.

 

[stormfallen]

Or Civil Servant slots, since it's the Diplomatic Victory wonder? Maybe Venice could get a 4th option for Scientific Victory to put Scientist slots on too (though that's more of a general discussion than 4UC-specific).

 

[azum4roll]

67% of the time Venice is left with less ability to produce merchants than other civs.

How is that so? Puppets can produce GPP too.

 

[rkkn]

How is that so? Puppets can produce GPP too.

because they work specialists only if they feel like it. you can't make them do it

 

[azum4roll]

They have a gold focus, so should always be working merchants.

 

[pineappledan]

Overall grade: A+
There is no civ that, on paper, benefits more from a gameplay perspective from 4UC than Venice. In base VP, Venice has no military UU, and no military bonuses to speak of unless it picks 1 of 3 possible unique wonders. The Venetians also have a unique great person and no consistent way of making more of them vs a base civ. Persia can build more GMerchants more consistently than Venice can. The UUs and UB that 4UC adds to Venice address inconsistencies and shortcomings of the Venetian kit that could not be seem to be fixed with only 2 component slots.

Great Galleass & Fusta
Theme - A. The Great Galleass is a base component, and it always seemed a bit silly to give Venice a slightly larger version of the exact same base unit and call it a unique. However, we rectified that by pairing it with the Fusta, a smaller galley that was used to police trade routes and ward of pirates. The combination of the two supplements the GGalleass’ otherwise lackluster theme.
Mechanics - S. Venice is the only base VP civ with no military bonuses whatsoever, unless you pick the Venetian arsenal. The Great Galleass and Fusta fix that by making a double-barrelled 2-in-1 unique component. The Great Galleass provides conventional power while the Fusta, which is both supply and maintenance free, provides affordable map coverage, allowing Venice to maintain a presence over the shipping lanes.
Uniqueness - S. No other unique component is 2 different units at once. It doesn’t even need to be a ship to be one of the most distinct UU designs in the game, but it is also that.

Banco Giro
Theme - A. The history of accounting and finance isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but banking was invented in northern Italy and it was specifically the Venetians who formalized many of the methods and theories of bookkeeping and debt instruments that are still in use today. The Banco Giro was one of the oldest and longest-standing national banks in existence until Napoleon shut it down. This component pays homage to that legacy.
Mechanics - A. The base VP kit gives Venice a unique great merchant, but their only additional means of generating GMerchants is a free 1 at the Trade tech and 2 extra slots IF they pick the Rialto District as their wonder. Does that not seem odd to anyone else? The Banco Giro rectifies this by not only giving Venice an unconditional merchant slot, but also adds a % yield to GPP converter.
Uniqueness – B. No other unique banks in the game and nothing that converts yields into Great Person Points. The component offers no new incentives, but fills a gaping hole in Venice’s current kit.

 

[hokath]

I don't really understand why Venice gets 5UC.
Like the design prompt was "add two things" and someone decided to add three. Que?

 

[ScarletArkyning]

I don't really understand why Venice gets 5UC.
Like the design prompt was "add two things" and someone decided to add three. Que?

The fusta and great galleas are designed as a sorta two for one unit. Gives you flexibility in the mid game naval spike to either use light cheap craft for spotting enemies and guarding trade routes, or using hulking warships for blowing away enemy ships and cities.

 

[hokath]

Yes I appreciate the idea it's just not in the scope of 4UC.
For example I go to Ottomans: oh they have this big cannon. But that's quite niche so then I *also* give them a unique cannon as well that complements it.
No. You get one or the other! Choose!

 

[Hinin]

Yes I appreciate the idea it's just not in the scope of 4UC.
For example I go to Ottomans: oh they have this big cannon. But that's quite niche so then I *also* give them a unique cannon as well that complements it.
No. You get one or the other! Choose!

A flexible mind please. Venice has no other military component, give it a bit of space to breath.

 

[azum4roll]

We have a tendency to accept unique components that lead to other unique components, like American and Venetian UNWs, and Unique Great People that build Unique GPTIs. These generally count as ONE unique component.

Fusta, however, is a separately built unit that just happens to unlock at the same tech as the other UU, which has no downsides compared to the replaced unit and thus does not require a complement unit.

 

[hokath]

A flexible mind please. Venice has no other military component, give it a bit of space to breath.

We have to live within our constraints or we are on the path to disorder and madness.
(You have adopted Freedom, but they follow Order!)

Great Galleass is not sufficiently interesting to merit a fundamental violation of the premise, not to mention the wording of the vote.
Probably nothing is.
Let us try a bit harder.

What about the following.
Great Galleass removed as a component. Receive 2 free Great Galleass when building Arsenale di Venezia.
They are even a "great" unit so we can give them names like the Great Bombards or the First Rates in @Hinin's Britain mod.

 

[ScarletArkyning]

Great Galleass removed as a component.

Well then the fusta would lack anything unique and special. It’s just a slightly cheaper and faster galleass, for a nation that should never have money problems.

 

[pineappledan]

It’s also weaker than a base galleass

 

[rkkn]

Well then the fusta would lack anything unique and special

no maintenance or supply cost is very special

 

[Urzamax]

I mean, we could make the Fusta and Great Galleass a literal two-for-one package--why not make a Fusta be built for free every time you build a Great Galleass? Not especially historical, aside from general 'Venice was insanely fast at shipbuilding' vibes, but could both make the Galleass more interesting and preserve the Fusta's current role as a cheap patrol/support ship.