[DLL] (8-NS) Sweden Rework - Great People focus

[Hinin]

This proposal is derived from the one from Hokath (8-41a). See its thread there.

Current :

UA - Lion of the North

Land Melee Units have +20% CS when attacking, and Siege Units have +1 MP. Military Units are healed (fully) and earn +15 XP when a Great General is born. Great General combat bonus increased by 15%.

UB1 - Skola (replaces Public School):
Available at Scientific Theory
800 Production Cost
4 Gold maintenance

+3 Science
+3 Science and +1 Culture for every 2 Citizens in the City.
-1 Unhappiness from Illiteracy.

UB2 - Bastu (replaces Baths):
Available at Metal Casting
200 Production Cost
1 Gold maintenance
No terrain requirements

+3 Culture and +1 Food
+1 Culture and +1 Gold to Temple, Amphitheater and Garden
+10% Culture and +10% Food during Golden Age
+1 Science to Lakes
+1 Science for every 2 worked Tundra tiles
15% of Science output in city as an instant boost to Science and 15% of Culture output in city as an instant boost to Culture whenever a citizen is born

UU2 - Hakkapeliitta (replaces Lancer):
Available at Metallurgy

350 Production Cost
Requires Horses

37 CS
5 Movement / 2 Sight

Can move after attacking
No Terrain Defense
No Movement to Pillage
Hakkaa Päälle! - +20% CS vs wounded Units, heals 30 HP from killing Units
Bonus Sight - +1 Sight

Proposal :

UA - Indelningsverket / Allotment System

Land Melee Units have +20% CS when attacking, and Siege Units have +1 MP. Great General combat bonus increased by 15%. Units earn 2 XP and heal 10 HP whenever a Great Person is born.

UB1 (UNW) - Nobel Committee (replaces Foreign Bureau)

Available at Dynamite (2 tiers before Radio)
Requires the Imperial College in the City
800 Production cost (scaling with number of Cities) / No Population requirement

+10% Culture and Science in the City
+1 Great Diplomat point per turn per Great Person Tile Improvement worked by the City
+1 Great General point to Scientist Specialists in the Empire

1 Civil Servant Specialist
+1 Paper
+20% Production of Diplomatic Units in this City
All Diplomatic Units receive the "Diplomatic Immunity" Promotion.

UB2 - Bastu (replaces the Garden)

Unlocked at Philosophy (instead of Theology)
Has no terrain requirement
200 Production cost (instead of 300)
No Maintenance cost (instead of 3 GPT)

+20 % Growth in the City
+25 % Great Person generation in the City
-2 Unhappiness from Urbanization in the City (up from -1)
+2 XP to Units trained in the City per Great Person Improvement worked by the City

UU2 - Jarl (unique UnitClass - Melee Unit)

Spawned whenever a Great General is born
Starts with XP from buildings as if trained in that city

2 MP / 2 Vision
CS scaling with Era (16 base + 8 per era after Classical)
- Ancient/Classical: 16 CS
- Medieval: 24 CS
- Renaissance: 32 CS
- Industrial: 40 CS
- Modern: 48 CS
- Atomic: 56 CS
- Information: 64 CS

Varangian - +1% CS per tile away from the Capital ; always fight at full strength
Rus - Can be expended to found a City. The founded City gains Culture, Food and Production scaling with the expended Jarl's experience (5 Culture / Food / Production per point of XP on settle, scaling with Era)

Rationale :

This version of the kit should provide not only much needed flexibility to the Swedish kit (which right now is all-or-nothing on the military side), but also some interesting GP synergies. I agree with pineappledan that stacking bonuses on GP births (which is something already quite frequent with policies or beliefs) is not interesting enough, and so I wanted to propose something related to GPTI stacking (defensively for the Bastu, diplomatically for the Nobel Commitee).

About the Jarl : I do think it is a shame that there is zero reference in the current Swedish kit to how Norse from the region, through their expeditions and trade routes, had a profound impact on the political landscape in the land of the Finns and the Slavs. I totally agree that what I propose is currently very clunky, but I would like to explore this possibility (that, and it brings even more variety to the Swedish kit instead of "even more attack").

This is still very much WIP, but I think there is good work to be done.

Edit 1 : Took pineappledan's proposal into account for the Jarl. Changed the Bastu to give XP per GPTI worked instead of HP and City CS. Changed the Nobel Commitee's yield from flat to percentage.

 

[Pipiskus]

Yarl unit looks really cool, it would've been even cooler if you could restrict the usage of Rus only to city borders like General but also made it expand lands = basically culture bomb coming back to life.
If i was you i would also cut setler functionality, seams too powerful when Sweden already have lots of tools to conquer cities, seems excessive.(on the other hand you cutting hakka so maybe its fine, idk)
You can make this unit itself a little stronger for the cost of this ability, it would also be nice if it was supply-free

 

[hokath]

I need time to ruminate on this but immediately I wonder if you can split into two proposals.
Take the Jarl and make a separate proposal to replace the Hakka.

Edit: We are not splitting counterproposals

 

[paul_soryu]

Is it possible to lower the amount of XP given by the UA with each era? 2 XP in early game is just nothing, and if Sweden doesn't go Tradition, it would be also almost nothing (like, 10-15XP) in the mid game, considering you already went to war and have level 3-4 units. While in late game a high XP reward would ineed just max out all your units.

How about giving 9 XP in Ancient, decreasing by 1 each era?

 

[Chinag]

+25 HP and +1 CS in the City per Great Person Tile Improvement worked by the City

So does the city lose Max HP if the enemy blocks the Tile from being worked on?

 

[KlHannibal2]

Very interesting indeed. Current Sweden has too much overlap with Zulus IMO. At the same time, Sweden retains what I regard as their strongest bonus: extra move on siege units.

 

[pineappledan]

This is still very much WIP, but I think there is good work to be done.

I'm not allowed to make proposals this round, but it I was, this is what I would suggest/counterpropose here:

Spoiler :

Civilization - Add Tundra Bias

UA - Lion of the North

Land Melee Units have +20% CS when attacking​

Siege Units have +1 MP.​

Great General combat bonus increased by 15%.​

Units earn 2 XP and heal 10 HP whenever a Great Person is born.​

UB1 (UNW) - Nobel Committee (replaces Foreign Bureau)

Available at Dynamite (2 tiers before Radio)​

Requires the Imperial College in the City​

800 Production cost (scaling with number of Cities) / No Population requirement​

+10 Culture and Science
1 Civil Servant Specialist​

+1 Paper​

+20% Production of Diplomatic Units in this City​

All Diplomatic Units receive the "Diplomatic Immunity" Promotion.​

+5 to Public Schools on Empire​

Gain 5% Progress towards a Great Person of the same type in this city whenever one is born globally.​

Gain 10 Influence with all City-States you have met when expending a Great Person​

UB2 - Bastu (replaces the Bath)

Available at Metal Casting​

200 Production Cost​

1 Gold maintenance​

No terrain requirements (does not require fresh water)​

+3 Culture and +2 Food​

+1 Culture and +1 Gold to Temple, Amphitheater and Garden​

+10% Culture during Golden Age​

+1 Science to Lakes
+1 Science for every 2 worked Tundra tiles​

Whenever a new Citizen is born, Food carried over is also added to the production of the most advanced Melee or Gun Unit.​

UU2 - Jarl (unique UnitClass - Melee Unit)
Spawned whenever a Great General is born
Starts with XP from buildings as if trained in that city
2 MP / 2 Vision
CS scaling with Era (16 base + 8 per era after Classical)

Ancient/Classical: 16 ​

Medieval: 24 ​

Renaissance: 32 ​

Industrial: 40 ​

Modern: 48 ​

Atomic: 56 ​

Information: 64 ​

Great General Combat Bonus (+25% CS when a Great General is on this tile)
Varangian promotion -

+20% CS when attacking (stacks with UA)​

can be expended to found a City.​

New city gains Culture, Food and Production scaling with the expended Jarl's experience (5 per point of XP on settle, scaling with era)​

​

Lion of the North
I think we should keep the name as is. Making reference to the Allotment system in the UA is a little awkward with Gustavus Adolphus as leader. Also, the bonuses listed don't really reference the Indelningsverk at all.

Bastu:
Keep Bastu as a bath. That's what it is, and we don't have 1 in the game right now. I just got done reworking Morocco and Persia's extra components to unstack 3 different UBs off the Garden; don't put another one back there please.
I suggest adding the reference to the Allotment System here. The bonus is copied from this mod. Many users have come into the comments on the current Sweden UC suggestions to comment that what was remarkable about Sweden's time spent as a European superpower was that it was done on a very small population base, and that giving them large bonuses for high population cities was weird. This bonus lets Sweden leverage what population they have into unit production very efficiently, without giving large bonuses for growth.

Nobel Committee
Current proposal is missing a global building class yield change. All UNWs give some yields to at least 1 building on empire, except for Venice. I propose a bonus to public schools.
My proposal is to allow Sweden to "siphon" GP progress from all civs globally. This is about as weird as giving GPPs per worked GPTI, but I think it also mirrors the function of the Nobel committee more closely by turning the bonuses more international.
The Influence on GP expend works well enough as an additional bonus. No other civ gets this bonus, which currently is only used very late on the UN WC project. Hokath's original design went overkill on GP expend bonuses, and while putting another expend bonus is not ideal it is at least more unique than yields.

Jarl
Listed what I think are fair starting numbers for the Jarl.
Changed the yields on settle bonus to be no free buildings, but a large amount of yields that scale with both XP and era.
Added an additional combat bonus when stacked with a Great General. This ability already exists on Naresuan's Elephant, and works well when used in tandem with the GGeneral that the Jarl Spawns with.
Added an additional +20% CS when attacking, for a combined total of +40%. Unlike spear and sword line units, the Jarl does not start with a free formation or discipline promotion. While their CS does scale it is sometimes not much higher than a mainline Melee/Gun unit. Doubling the UA attack bonus is a way to compensate for that while remaining true to the civ's ethos of high-aggression melee units.

 

[hokath]

I think this is a good triangulation.
Since everyone is on board with the UA change I will add that to mine too. Fewer moving parts.

 

[Captain Carrot]

Gain 5% Progress towards a Great Person of the same type in this city whenever one is born globally.​

Should this maybe inversely scale with the number of players? Or at least with map size.

 

[paul_soryu]

The Influence on GP expend works well enough as an additional bonus. No other civ gets this bonus, which currently is only used very late on the UN WC project

Iirc, one of Freedom's Tenets also gives this bonus. The one where you also get bonus Influence for gifting units.

 

[pineappledan]

Should this maybe inversely scale with the number of players? Or at least with map size.

That’s a good point. Maybe that idea is unworkable.

 

[Hinin]

Edit 1 : Took pineappledan's proposal into account for the Jarl. Changed the Bastu to give XP per GPTI worked instead of HP and City CS. Changed the Nobel Commitee's yield from flat to percentage.

 

[Hinin]

DLL requirements for this proposal :
- UA : either a Trait or a UnitPromotion table (the second would be more versatile), like UnitPromotions_HealOnGPBirth (PromotionType, GreatPersonType, AmountHealed)
- Noble Commitee : Building_GreatPersonPointPerImprovementWorked (BuildingType, GreatPersonPointType, ImprovementType, Amount) or something similar
- Jarl : Trait_FreeUnitClassGPBirth (TraitType, UnitClassType, GreatPersonType, Number), which would be quite versatile + Unit_YieldFromExperienceWhenSettling (UnitType, YieldType, Yield)

 

[hokath]

It also needs the XP to be opened up to all GP since currently it is "XPBonusFromGGBirth = 15"

 

[Hinin]

The advantage of all these elements would be that they would be interesting tool boxes for future projects.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.