(9-000) VP Congress Session #9 "Balance Summit"

hokath

hokath

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Hello Populi!

Our ninth session opens for proposals (and counterproposals)
1st of Jan 2026 at 10 AM CDT (GMT-5)

This is the first session after the long interregnum caused by 4UC integration.
Indeed, 5.0.1 is currently a beta version.
Due to the need for the DLL devs to focus on fixing bugs and bringing 5.0 to release quality, there is a moratorium on:
  1. complicated proposals (requiring substantial DLL or AI changes)
  2. speculative proposals that might have an unpredictable effect on balance.
Please focus on existing balance issues, of which there are already very many to discuss!
If you do have something that is exceptional, please petition the MAGI in the magi-petitions channel on the discord, and ask for a vote.
This is intended as a one-off to help us smoothly transition into the 5.0 era without further postponing the congress. Thank you.
1767184771857.png

Examples:
Things that are encouraged: what promotions should recon have, what should the yields be on farms, how much GPP should a specialist produce, where should this or that effect be in the policy trees
Also allowed: changes to unique components, given the new thing either already exists/used to exist or can be playtested
Things you should keep for the April session: integrate subterfuge, code the Xian improvement, revert the happiness system, simplify the promotion system

As always, please refer to the guide in the first instance
Recursive

Thread 'Vox Populi Congress Guide'

The Vox Populi Congress is a formal system to propose changes to the mod which will be run throughout the year. It began on October 1, 2022.

VP Congress Phases
Anyone who wishes to propose a change to the mod (even if they're just a player and not a coder!) can go through the following process. There are four VP Congress Sessions annually.

The months of January, April, July and October are Proposal Months. This is the only time where new proposals may be made in the VP Congress subforum. During these months, the schedule is as follows:
First 14 days of...
  • Like
 
Using CDT when it's not daylight saving time is just cursed.
 
I think the specialist kidnap option for spies is a little overtuned, playing a couple tall tradition games recently it was a nobrainer to use that, with little (30% chance) of getting caught, as well as hampering great people in the civ stolen from. What makes it especially get out of hand is those actions stack so you could have something like +4 gpp per specialist, with late game percentage modifiers this becomes pretty significant. Maybe raising the chance of getting caught/killed or only being able to steal gpp from capitals might be enough of a nerf?
 
SpankmyMetroid said:
I think the specialist kidnap option for spies is a little overtuned, playing a couple tall tradition games recently it was a nobrainer to use that, with little (30% chance) of getting caught, as well as hampering great people in the civ stolen from. What makes it especially get out of hand is those actions stack so you could have something like +4 gpp per specialist, with late game percentage modifiers this becomes pretty significant. Maybe raising the chance of getting caught/killed or only being able to steal gpp from capitals might be enough of a nerf?
Click to expand...
I think if we're considering a change to this the right move is just to increase the cost. It's very satisfying as is.
 
Gentlemen you can't workshop proposals in here, this is the announcement thread!
1767265865747.png


Recursive

Thread 'Vox Populi Congress Proposal Workshop'

Hey all,

I thought it would be good to have a dedicated thread to brainstorm/develop ideas for future Vox Populi Congress proposals. Post ideas here and others in the community can give feedback on them, or you can work together.

You might also want to use the Discord server or create your own thread in the Community Patch Project subforum, both of which are also allowed in conjunction with this thread.

This will also help with communication between proposers and sponsors (who can be found on the new Sponsorship Registration thread, once they register). If a sponsor has...
  • Like
or discord (very popular)
 
I've extended the Counterproposal Phase by 1 extra day because we are doing a big pass on vetoes and want to give you time to react if something gets struck down you want to respond to.
 
Is there any additional clarification available on where the line is being drawn for recon units? It feels a bit difficult to react since it's not clear what's allowed and what's not.
 
Not yet. In the mean time we'll have to assume stare decisis that changes similar to the ones that were not vetoed are acceptable.
 
hokath said:
Not yet. In the mean time we'll have to assume stare decisis that changes similar to the ones that were not vetoed are acceptable.
Click to expand...
Hard to tell what is similar honestly. Feels quite random which ones were vetoed and not vetoed.
 
Can we add a bit more clarity to this? "speculative proposals that might have an unpredictable effect on balance."

Funny that this was one of the examples: "Things that are encouraged: what promotions should recon have"
 
redrum68 said:
Can we add a bit more clarity to this? "speculative proposals that might have an unpredictable effect on balance."

Funny that this was one of the examples: "Things that are encouraged: what promotions should recon have"
Click to expand...
I have to agree on this. I'd recommend the same solution azum4roll did: handle recon at the next session.

There is precedent for this, if I recall correctly I made a similar decision with the GAP rework.
 
For recon, that's effectively what we've come to: let's talk about big reworks next congress.

However I do think the superscout phenomenon is in need of immediate intention per se, which is why the base proposal and its similar-scope counterproposals still stand
H

[Complex] Thread '(9-NS) Add A Soft Cap To Scout Exploration XP'

I’m surprised there hasn’t been a proposal focusing on the recon line yet, so I’ll make one.

Motivation: As anyone who lurks in the community probably knows, superscouts—scouts that gain many promotions from early exploration, especially Survivalism III and Trailblazer III—are a problem. A properly promoted superscout can ignore terrain costs and ZoC, use enemy roads, reach 5 movement (with Scouting II), heal every turn, and stack substantial defensive bonuses.

On standard speed, it’s possible to get a superscout with some of these promotions by the Classical era, or even earlier...
 
My proposal shouldn't fall under the "big rework" definition, so I'm assuming this means that the reason why it was vetoed was because it wasn't hostile enough to super-scouts then.
 
Yes although I would be interested to know how the AI reacts to it -- if they avoid enemy territory (as they should), or if they go in and get stuck in the mud.
 
Should still be better than losing ignore terrain on combat.
 
hokath said:
Gentlemen you can't workshop proposals in here, this is the announcement thread!
View attachment 752527

Recursive

Thread 'Vox Populi Congress Proposal Workshop'

Hey all,

I thought it would be good to have a dedicated thread to brainstorm/develop ideas for future Vox Populi Congress proposals. Post ideas here and others in the community can give feedback on them, or you can work together.

You might also want to use the Discord server or create your own thread in the Community Patch Project subforum, both of which are also allowed in conjunction with this thread.

This will also help with communication between proposers and sponsors (who can be found on the new Sponsorship Registration thread, once they register). If a sponsor has...
  • Like
or discord (very popular)
Click to expand...
Would really love to know which movie this picture is from.,,
 
PSA: This thread had a typo that flipped the order of the proposals. It may not have been clear which way around it was meant to be so I have wiped all votes.
hokath

[Vote] Thread '(9-64) Increased Base Supply'

Supply is the unit cap mechanic that was recently tightened to lowered the total number of available units on the map (it is important to note, this increases performance especially in the late game)
Current and new values:

Difficulty Level​
Current Flat Unit Supply (Humans / AI)​
Stalker0 Proposal​
Recursive Proposal​
Extra Sight for AI Units (Unchanged)*Extra XP for AI Units (Unchanged)**
Settler14 / 1217 /...
Please vote again.
Thank you.
 
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