(9-002a) Charbagh Rework

[redrum68]

Motivation
Charbagh yields are a bit weak, especially outside of a golden age. While this is intended as a drawback to the GPP buff, it often ends up feeling bad to choose between working Charbaghs or better tiles (such as the GPTI you're getting earlier). In addition, the low food means working Charbaghs and Specialists together outside of a Tradition capital can be rough, and maximizing Charbaghs means no farm triangles. They are also just a spread of many different yields and lack focus.

So production is removed and other yields increased to give more focus. The small GP bonus is swapped for bonus gold on adjacent Farms since they are built on freshwater where you often have farms. Also, most other Medieval UIs get 3 boosts from tech, so this equalizes that. The Modern boost is moved back to not have two boosts in a row (looking at you, Feitoria).

Current Charbagh

• Requires Theology, fresh water, no two adjacent
• 2 Food, 1 Production, 1 Gold, 1 Culture
• +1 Production and Culture during Golden Ages (along with baseline +1 Gold)
• +5% Great Person Points to City working tile
• +1 Production and Culture at Banking
• +2 Gold at Electricity

Proposed Charbagh (changes bolded)

• Requires Theology, fresh water, no two adjacent
• 2 Food, 3 Gold, 2 Culture
• +1 Food, Gold and Culture during Golden Ages (along with baseline +1 Gold)
• +5% Great Person Points to City working tile
• +1 Gold and Culture at Banking
• +2 Food at Fertilizer
• +2 Gold at Electricity Flight
• +2 Gold to adjacent Farms

References
Counterproposal to

Thread '(9-002) Persian Charbagh Food Buff'

Jan 1, 2026

Motivation: Charbagh yields are a bit weak, especially outside of a golden age. While this is intended as a drawback to the GPP buff, it often ends up feeling bad to choose between working Charbaghs or better tiles (such as the GPTI you're getting earlier). In addition, the low food means working Charbaghs and Specialists together outside of a Tradition capital can be rough, and maximizing Charbaghs means no farm triangles.

Current Charbagh:

• Requires Theology, fresh water, no two adjacent
• 2 Food, 1 Production, 1 Gold, 1 Culture
• +1...

• stormfallen
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Passed Proposals

• 

 

[stormfallen]

This just feels like Chateau without the fort effect.

 

[hokath]

I'm fine with removing production if that helps create a better focus, but the GPP% is the big selling point. Persia has this slight Specialist sub-focus and I think it's better to expand on that rather than remove it.

Point of order: please link the original proposal

 

[redrum68]

This just feels like Chateau without the fort effect.

Similar base yields but everything else is different.

I'm fine with removing production if that helps create a better focus, but the GPP% is the big selling point. Persia has this slight Specialist sub-focus and I think it's better to expand on that rather than remove it.

Point of order: please link the original proposal

The GPP% is too weak to matter outside your capital especially since Persia's kit doesn't have much GPP focus and is also very random with the freshwater req. I think either moving away from GPP focus or having significantly more focus on it are the options for Persia. Given they already have a golden age, gold, and war focus, I think its better to focus on those rather than add GPP to the mix. So I remove the production/GPP and add mostly more gold and make it so it isn't destroying all your farm triangle yields along rivers.

Updated to link proposal.

 

[pineappledan]

Similar base yields but everything else is different.

Literally what are you talking about? All it does is yields, and they're the chateau's yields

 

[redrum68]

Literally what are you talking about? All it does is yields, and they're the chateau's yields

Golden age yields, farm adjacency yields, different tech scalers, different placement restrictions, no fort/defense bonus

 

[FPXI]

I'm against removing the GPP as well. Persia's kit is pretty good as is, and I think for kits that are pretty good we should be finding ways to diversify them, not streamline them. Ideally every kit would be maximally diverse, effective, and historically evocative with a few exceptions for simpler gameplay options. I'm indifferent to the similarities to Chateau. Being similar to Chateau is a criticism that comes up somewhat frequently, and to me it's an indictment of Chateau and the UI in question in equal measure.

 

[Legen]

I sponsor this.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.