(9-008) Food/Farm/Specialist Tweaks

[paul_soryu]

Proposed Farms on Resources (Changes in Bold)

• Wheat
  • +2Food
• Rice
  • +1Food, +1Production
• Maize
  • +1Food, +2Gold

I would remove this part (except +2 Gold on Maize instead of just +1, improving Maize currently is a huge waste of Worker turns even in mid-game), make Specialists consume 3 Food in Ancient Era (seems balanced right now) and start scaling at Classical Era (so just a +1 increase from the start of the game).

My concern is that buffing Farms at the very start of the game could place starts which rely on Fish and Camps for their Food at a huge disadvantage. Often you just don't have any Farm resource around your Capital, while sometimes you get 3 Wheat on Flood Plains, no need to buff the second case, it is already very good. Early game Food is very important for how quickly you'll be developing and producing Settlers, it seems to be balanced right now. The problem is that Farms go obsolete later.

 

[redrum68]

I would remove this part (except +2 Gold on Maize instead of just +1, improving Maize currently is a huge waste of Worker turns even in mid-game), make Specialists consume 3 Food in Ancient Era (seems balanced right now) and start scaling at Classical Era (so just a +1 increase from the start of the game).

My concern is that buffing Farms at the very start of the game could place starts which rely on Fish and Camps for their Food at a huge disadvantage. Often you just don't have any Farm resource around your Capital, while sometimes you get 3 Wheat on Flood Plains, no need to buff the second case, it is already very good. Early game Food is very important for how quickly you'll be developing and producing Settlers, it seems to be balanced right now. The problem is that Farms go obsolete later.

So the main reasons for those changes are to make starts with farm resources more competitive with other starts and to make building farms on them worth it. Right now the additional yields from farms on resources are so low compared to just about all other resources.

 

[Alpakinator]

I would remove this part (except +2 Gold on Maize instead of just +1, improving Maize currently is a huge waste of Worker turns even in mid-game), make Specialists consume 3 Food in Ancient Era (seems balanced right now) and start scaling at Classical Era (so just a +1 increase from the start of the game).

My concern is that buffing Farms at the very start of the game could place starts which rely on Fish and Camps for their Food at a huge disadvantage. Often you just don't have any Farm resource around your Capital, while sometimes you get 3 Wheat on Flood Plains, no need to buff the second case, it is already very good. Early game Food is very important for how quickly you'll be developing and producing Settlers, it seems to be balanced right now. The problem is that Farms go obsolete later.

Before this change a single plains maize farm not near fresh water would give 2 1 1 at the start, With this change then it'd rise to 312. +1for fresh water, granary, farm triangle, aqueduct, grocer, civil service. so late medieval in renaissance we get 912 with this proposal. Currently it's 6 1 1. Meanwhile cattle (on plains for comparison sake) which i assume should be of similar value is 4 5, but only with stable, and no triangles or fresh water.

 

[Chinag]

Can you guys please use the civ 5 emotes? Reading these proposals takes way longer having to reinterpret all this

Axatin's online VP civilopedia uses emotes so when you copy paste them they're brought over.

 

[Alpakinator]

The "problem" with this proposal is that it leaves some plantations and all non forest/jungle camps behind. I don't know if the game design should seek to have all resources to have roughly equal value, if yes, then they should be buffed as well in another proposal. I feel like it shouldn't but idk why.

 

[redrum68]

The "problem" with this proposal is that it leaves some plantations and all non forest/jungle camps behind. I don't know if the game design should seek to have all resources to have roughly equal value, if yes, then they should be buffed as well in another proposal. I feel like it shouldn't but idk why.

Yeah I thought that was starting to scope creep too far and farm resources I think are the worst so best to address them first. But a separate proposal around plantation and camp balancing seems like a good idea...

 

[Legen]

Axatin's online VP civilopedia uses emotes so when you copy paste them they're brought over.

That explains a lot.

 

[redrum68]

Updated proposal

• Remove the small instant production from Aqueduct and Harrappan Reservoir (extra production doesn't really make sense on a food/growth building and the amount is very low)

 

[Alpakinator]

I like removing minor effects with low ratio of strength to text space they use.

 

[AndreyK]

I don't like removing production on growth, I like that. Many times I use this feature to be able to win WW build race, very nice to use with tribute. I believe more population - more production, with growth you have your needs growth and small bonus is welcome.

 

[hokath]

Same comment as other thread: does the specialist food costs exist as a define or no?

 

[FPXI]

Same comment as other thread: does the specialist food costs exist as a define or no?

If it does, I can't find it. It looks like specialist food consumption is calculated in CvCity ( ln 16004), where it takes the maximum of FOOD_CONSUMPTION_PER_POPULATION + 1 or the integer representation of the current game era.

Think this requires DLL.

 

[FPXI]

I'll go ahead and sponsor this.