(9-013) Earlier Pikeman

[hokath]

Motivation:
Pikes are not very good. They don't stand up to Knights yet they unlock at around the same time.
They also leave a huge gap between Spearmen and their upgrade, which means if someone comes along with Knights and you only have Spears... Exit to Main Menu.
There are several places you can go from here.

If Pikes were stronger Knights would be useless and Longswordsmen redundant, so that would necessitate a larger change.
After a lot of back and forth with myself over the last year+ I eventually arrived at making them 1 column early (and so, cheaper)
I acknowledge Azum said this was the solution at the start, so you can be doubly sure this is a good move.
By doing this, the defender at least throw a bunch of them at the Knights, but the Knights still get to feel like dominant monsters. Everyone wins?

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Proposal:

• Pikeman
  • Moved forward to Engineering
    harder to beeline than Metal Casting, which many fewer prereqs
  • Cost decreased to 110
  • Goedendag cost proportionally decreased to 90 and CS to 19 (was 20)
    The Dutch UU is currently cheaper than the base unit
  • Maori warrior CS to 21 (was 22)
  • Berseker no changes (still at Metal Casting)

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Implementation Notes:
This uses only existing database code.
Can be played here.

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References:
The renaming and icon bit is split off to here

Thread '(9-075) Pikes and Tercios rename'

Jan 9, 2026

Motivation:
I have a separate gripe about this unit which is that a Pike is really an iconic weapon of the Renaissance (in game classification) rather than the (early) Medieval.
They are actually pretty terrifying: relatively engineered and usually like 4+ meters long (if you've seen one in a museum you know what I mean)
This is the weapon of the Tercio unit, basically. More on that in a second.
The weapon wielded by the pikeman looks more (in the icon) like a Halberd, which was popular earlier on,

although the armor in game is like a full plate cuirass, so that's probably in...

• hokath
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Failed Proposals

• 

 

[Stalker0]

I think the change is a fine idea but do we really need to be changing unit names AGAIN. There’s nothing wrong with the current names

 

[hokath]

Feel free to counterpropose without the name changes. I know it's minor, but it matters to me and my love of long pointy objects.

 

[stormfallen]

What about Maori Warrior?

 

[hokath]

Good point, that has moved (back?) to Pikeman, hasn't it.
I need to reacquaint myself with the arguments about why it isn't a Longswordsman.
For now, I would just lower its CS by 1, like the Goedendag

(strategy text a bit out of date, lol)

 

[redrum68]

While I generally agree with the change, not sure I agree with all the motiviation.

"If Pikes were stronger Knights would be useless and Longswordsmen redundant, so that would necessitate a larger change." - Not necessarily. You could easily buff Pikes 1-2 CS and Knights would still be fine and Longswordmen would still be considerably stronger. I think this is one solution (maybe the best) but not the only potential solution to making pikes viable.

 

[hokath]

I tried that first (I think +3 and then +2) and it felt like it made the combat a lot... flatter? More flat? Less interesting.
No knights? No problems.
You still want some problems, I think.

 

[Bromar1]

The icon is great! I wouldn't mind seeing that in game

 

[redrum68]

I tried that first (I think +3 and then +2) and it felt like it made the combat a lot... flatter? More flat? Less interesting.
No knights? No problems.
You still want some problems, I think.

I think +3 is probably too much especially if you don't buff longswords (20 vs 22 CS). But +2 CS I think could work as Pikeman at 19 CS vs Longsword at 22 CS vs Knight at 24 CS is pretty reasonable. Knights with some flanking can still win but it would be more challenging than it is now. It definitely is different approach though since they unlock closer together and are more equal in power vs trying to stagger so each has a window of opportunity.

 

[azum4roll]

Having pikes and longswords at the same tech has always been a problem when making uniques. A unique pikeman cannot be lower than 22 CS or you'd rather be making a longswordsman instead most of the time (unit quality >>> cost when determining which unit to produce due to supply and 1UPT). Or it's made dirt cheap like Goedendag (100 vs 160 ). Or it unlocks earlier like Berserker (with mixed perceptions).

Separating their unlock tech means we can add more unique pikeman units without making them significantly stronger than the base unit.

 

[FPXI]

In favor of moving them back.Like the icon. Like the Terico name change.Hate the pikeman name change but don't know what to change it to.

I support this until I think of a better name and counterpropose.

 

[hokath]

Split the name part off. Link in OP

 

[hokath]

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