(9-040) Mongolia Economic Bonuses

[hokath]

Motivation:
As @Chinag noted in the other Mongolia thread,

Everything in their kit is pure Authority it feels like. Good reflection of the Mongol's rapid expansion, but none of their cultural impact on the world.

This is Japan More-Sword syndrome, but for Mongolia. This is a mighty culture stretching back a thousand years and before to the early nomadic peoples of the eastern steppes. It feels a shame to condense them into the Mongol Terror, to me. Though, clearly, the design should still be synergistic around domination since this is a game after all! That's the tricky balance to be struck.
I would like to represent the more domestic nomadic relationship with horses, and also throat singing. I would also like to reduce the repetition of the tent (Ger, Ordo, Yassa icon even)

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Proposal:

• UA:
  • No longer receives extra Yields from Tribute
    As discussed, there is also an issue here with very early Faith makes them a Religious civ
  • Gain +1 Food, Culture, Border Growth, and GG Point from Horses, Stables, and Agribusinesses
    The extra buildings are like a weak "era scaling" for the effect
  • Name changed to "Khiimori", which means Wind Horse: an east Asian concept equivalent to the soul
• UB: Ger replaced (reimagined) as the Tuvan Ail
  
  
  icon by me
  • Replaces the Musicians' Guild (so limit 3)
  • +2 Food, Culture, Border Growth, and GG Points from Musicians and Pastures in the City
  • +3 Culture, Faith, and Tourism for every Mountain within the workable tiles
  • +1 Food and Tourism to nearby Grassland
  • +1 Production and Faith to nearby Plains
    "Acquire" the perfect terrain to leverage this unique building's power bonuses!

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Implementation notes:
I didn't do this in my playtest version but I would use the Building_YieldPerXTerrainTimes100 table for the Plains/Grassland part too because it will let you see, with the new automatic tooltip, what sort of yields to expect in each city at a glance. Could be very helpful and save a lot of time!

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References:
This is not a counterproposal to this

Thread '(9-029) Mongolia Nerfs'

Jan 1, 2026

Motivation
Mongols are probably the strongest civ when played by humans (the AI is terrible as they don't know to focus on building skirmishers) and their UA with double attack skirmishers is particularly problematic especially when combined with Ordos full movement restore. It allows them to do an incredible amount of damage while often not being exposed to any significant counter attack. The tribute portion of their UA is also very strong and generates Food/Culture/Faith which don't really seem that aligned with how Mongolia is meant to be played early game.

Approach:

• ...

• redrum68
• Replies: 28
• Forum: Failed Proposals

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but they would have to be voted on together.
If they both pass, the Tribute mechanic on the UA is removed rather than rebalanced

 

[Chinag]

I'm not sure how the starting biases works in current VP. Is it possible to make civs start near specific strategic resources?

I mentioned in the other thread that linking the eco bonus to a singular resource can create quite a big variance between each game. Some starts gives you 3 horse tiles in your capital. Sometimes it gives you none. In fact, the first 5/6 UC + your changes modmod, I tried Mongolia on Pangea and the gave only gave me one horse tile in a 2nd/3rd city slot.

Also I do find the eco just buffing horses both weird and underwhelming. There's only two other UAs that buff tiles directly, and they both have broader applications with lesser stats: Ethiopia gives +1 Faith to every strategic resource and Polynesia gives +2 Production to Fishing Boats and Atolls. The UA gives you a lot of yields, but they're spread in 4 directions. Although it could just be me undervaluing Border Growth and GG points in tile yields - they're really hard to judge the value of due to how long term they are, but that also makes not having a horse tile in your capital feel even worse.

I do like the UA name change. Dunno if people prefer UA names in English (like current Hun's Scourge of God) or in their native tongue (Like Denmark's recent-ish Mycel Hæþen Here).

UB change seems decent too. Giving them a renaissance UC is a nice spread of their power.

 

[redrum68]

So I like the general direction but...

I mentioned in the other thread that linking the eco bonus to a singular resource can create quite a big variance between each game. Some starts gives you 3 horse tiles in your capital. Sometimes it gives you none. In fact, the first 5/6 UC + your changes modmod, I tried Mongolia on Pangea and the gave only gave me one horse tile in a 2nd/3rd city slot.

Yeah I don't like this either. Also giving culture directly on horses means once you research animal husbandry (~ turn 10), if you have multiple horses in your capital then you would have 2+ extra culture very early. This could cause a lot of balance problems. Maybe do pastures instead as that makes it less spawn RNG and takes longer to come online especially if you stick with giving culture?

 

[FPXI]

Generally against this.IF we need to diversity the Mongolian identity, I'd prefer it be along religious rather than cultural lines. Also, too much horse now.

 

[pineappledan]

That's a no from me, dawg

 

[azum4roll]

Mycel Hæþen Here

That's actually Olde English.

 

[redrum68]

The more I think about this, the more the UA feels more like a policy than a UA. Its not really very unique just giving some yields on some "horse" related things. Feels very passive.

The UB change I think is decent but extra food and tourism feels odd on Mongolia. They were not a high pop empire but a lower pop empire with lots of land. BGP and GG points, I think fit well especially if the XP on only first attack passes so you can generate more Khans.

 

[hokath]

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