(9-046a) Greek Hoplite Nerf Alternative

[redrum68]

Motivation: Hoplites are probably the strongest Ancient unit. They have +2 combat strength over Spearman, two very good free promotions, and are resource-free. Probably a bit much for how spammable they are until Medieval. The other unique Spearmen only have +1 strength and arguably weaker promotions (except maybe Immortals). Unity and Greece's UA allows Hoplites to gain considerable bonuses to combat strength at a time when many promotions aren't available yet. The Great General points also feel a bit random on a Civ with no other Great General synergy, and I'd assume they were just ported over from Companion Cavalry.

TL;DR: Rename Unity to Phalanx, remove base 10% and reduce CS by 1; remove Great Generals II. Keep the 15% per adjacent unit as that is the core identity.

Current (differences from Spearman underlined):
Cost: 70 / 150
Moves: 2
Strength: 14 (+2)
----------------
Free Promotions:

• Unity (+10% Combat Strength, +15% Combat Strength per Adjacent Owned Land Unit.)
• Great Generals II (+100% Great General Points from combat.)
• Formation I (+33% Combat Strength VS Mounted Units, +15% Combat Strength when defending in Open Terrain.)

Proposed (differences from current bolded, removals struckthrough):
Cost: 70

/ 150

Moves: 2

Strength: 13 (+1)
----------------
Free Promotions:

• Phalanx (+15%
  
  Combat Strength per Adjacent Owned Land Unit.)
• Great Generals II
• Formation I (+33%
  
  Combat Strength VS Mounted Units, +15%
  
  Combat Strength when defending in Open Terrain.)

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References
Counterproposal to this

Thread '(9-046) Greek Hoplite Nerf'

Jan 2, 2026

Motivation: Hoplites are probably the strongest Ancient unit. They have +2 combat strength over Spearman, two very good free promotions, and are resource-free. Probably a bit much for how spammable they are until Medieval. The other unique Spearmen only have +1 strength and arguably weaker promotions (except maybe Immortals). Unity and Greece's UA allows Hoplites to gain considerable bonuses to combat strength at a time when many promotions aren't available yet. The Great General points also feel a bit random on a Civ with no other Great General synergy, and I'd assume they were just...

• stormfallen
• Replies: 12
• Forum: Vox Populi Congress

• 

 

[Stalker0]

I'm curious if this is more a response to the AI not building walls as much (which should get fixed), than the unit being OP. Personally in my experience I like Immortals better, hoplites are great but they still get ground down by things like sword/archer, or just rough terrain with archer.

 

[redrum68]

I'm curious if this is more a response to the AI not building walls as much (which should get fixed), than the unit being OP. Personally in my experience I like Immortals better, hoplites are great but they still get ground down by things like sword/archer, or just rough terrain with archer.

I think Hoplites are significantly better than Immortals and this change I think would make them much more equal. They are even more OP right now because the AI not prioritizing walls but they've been a top UU for a long time. Its quite easy to get 3-4 adjacent units for 45-60% combat bonus. You also keep the promotion on upgrade so great for Pikes/Tercios and later gunpowder units.

This change is both trying to nerf them a bit but also streamline and remove things that don't really need to be on Hoplites.

 

[pineappledan]

IMO the +2 CS is a big part of hoplite identity and shouldn’t be touched.
Both of the other unique spears have 13 CS

 

[azum4roll]

14 CS is fine. It's the 14 CS + 10% unconditional CS that's overdone.

 

[Legen]

I sponsor this.