(9-29b) Swap Hwach'a and Chu-Ko-Nu Abilities

[pineappledan]

Spoiler Current Chu Ko nu and Hwacha :

Proposal: Swap the two promotions

Chu Ko Nu gains Logistics, loses Siege Volley, and base CS/RCS is changed to 16/19 (+1 CS from base Xbow)
Hwacha gains Siege Volley and gets Siege promotion back, loses logistics, and CS/RCS is changed to 15/24 (+7 CS and +3 RCS)

Siege volleys gives the unit +25% CS/RCS when in or adjacent to a city and 5 splash damage. This will go well on the Hwach'a, because they have access to the splash promotions from the field line, allowing Hwach'a to stack up to 15 AOE damage on attack. This maintains the Hwach'a anti-unit flavour. Base CS is mega-boosted so to the level of a xbow so that it can maaaaaybe get up close enough to throw some big AOE splash shots from melee distance and get some damage into backline without it being a guaranteed suicide.
The Chu Ko Nu Goes back to its vanilla ability of having 2 attacks. I am hopeful that if 9-30 passes (no XP on 2nd attack), that the ChuKoNu will be considered more acceptably balanced, and can be made whole again.

 

[paul_soryu]

I always considered Siege Volley a very weak ability, 5 HP is practically nothing, and unless you're moving a unit to the frontline (which means it is dying/losing most of its health the next turn), the best case scenario is you hit 2 more units for 5 HP, and even then the terrain (hills, forests and forest/jungle hills) and the shape of the frontline (like when you can only hit one unit 2 tiles away) most of the time limits the splash damage to 0-1 units.

+25% CS/RCS when in or adjacent to a city is only good on defense or shortly after capturing a city. Moving Ranged units (and especially Siege) close to a city is too dangerous, unless you already got it surrounded, at which point +25% CS/RCS doesn't matter that much.

Still, I think Siege Volley is better for Hwacha, at least when you upgrade it into Field Guns you gain Indirect Fire and then at Artillery you gain +1 Range, so Hwacha's with 15 AOE Damage (and possibly Logistics) will have a very good delayed benefit (30 HP unblockable AOE damage to 3-5 units per turn per unit actually sounds overpowered). Chu Ko Nu's can never have Indirect Fire, so their possible +1 Range promotion still will be obstruced by terrain.

 

[redrum68]

Hwacha gains Siege Volley and gets Siege promotion back

Can you specify which Siege promotion as there are 2: Siege Engine and Siege Inaccuracy

 

[pineappledan]

They would get them all back.
Hwacha would be a full siege unit again.

 

[redrum68]

They would get them all back.
Hwacha would be a full siege unit again.

So essentially a Treb with some boosted stats and 5 splash? Seems pretty boring and quite a big nerf compared to the existing Hwacha.

 

[KlHannibal2]

The nerf to the Hwacha would be extreme amd the buff to the Chu ko nu likewise. Those are two of the strongest and weakest promotions on ranged UUs. Stacking siege volley with splash would make more sense than having it on the Chu ko nu.

In any case, we should think of the impact on the entire civs. Korea is a very good war monger now it you make it to hwachas. That would be gone completely and China would take that bonis over.

 

[KlHannibal2]

Historically, it does make sense to give China a strong unit for conquest instead of Korea.

 

[hokath]

Hwacha was definitely intended to help Korea turtle (ship) instead of conquer, yet achieves the opposite.
So it makes sense to me to swap these back.

 

[hokath]

I sponsor this

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.