[Vote] (9-49) Manufactory and Academy Changes

[pineappledan]

Current bonuses:
Manufactory acts as a free adjacency for all adjacencies, including UIs.

Proposal:
Manufactory loses adjacency bonus
Manufactories placed on resources give +1 copy of that resource.
Academy gains the adjacency bonus
Oppidium remains unchanged.

AI would need to be taught to put manufactories on luxuries and strategics.
This ability might already exist in the code and the AI might already be trained on it, so this could just be a simple database change.

Justification
It would be neat if GPTIs each had a special ability in addition to their yields. Town and Manufactory have special yield mechanics right now, but academies and holy sites are still blank.
The adjacency bonus is kinda nonsense so it could be on any GPTI.
Manufactories adding a resource copy would be a neat interaction with monopoly, trade, and tactical implications without adding yet more adjacencies and without contributing to yield bloat.

 

[pineappledan]

No change to oppidum

 

[paul_soryu]

Maybe make it the other way around, Academies providing +1 copy (due to "advanced technology of extraction"), and Manufactory providing adjacency bonus? It makes more sense to me for a Manufactory to provide adjacency bonus than for an Academy.

 

[hokath]

Yes it would be very cool to have this bonus, and the code does exist.
The ResourceExtractionMod exists already, the git blame says Gazebo in 2018
Looking at CvBuilderTaskingAI.cpp seems to suggest the AI would understand that it gives a second copy because it calls these

int iResourceAmount = eResourceFromImprovement != NO_RESOURCE ? pkImprovementInfo->GetResourceQuantityFromImprovement() : pPlot->getNumResource();
int iResourceWeight = GetResourceWeight(eConnectedResource, iResourceAmount);

 

[hokath]

due to "advanced technology of extraction"

That's funny, I imagined that the Manufactory "makes" more of the resource. The Academy provides training to nearby citizens, making them better at their job (adjacency bonus)

 

[stormfallen]

No change to oppidum

ok but why not

I feel like Oppida should be generally a bit stronger than the alternative base GPTI, otherwise it's a wasted component.

 

[paul_soryu]

That's funny, I imagined that the Manufactory "makes" more of the resource.

I thought of this too, but then I couldn't come up with something for Academies. I imagine Academies would be highly specialized in something, not just providing training for general farming and lumber milling.

 

[hokath]

I feel like Oppida should be generally a bit stronger than the alternative base GPTI, otherwise it's a wasted component.

Yes and no. It gives bonus to Engineer/Merchant/Scientist bulb, but only at half effectiveness.
So in principle you can plant your, let's say, Scientists as Academies, but your Merchants and Engineers as Oppida.
This gives you maximum bulb-power on the Scientist. And with this change, also this secondary effect.

 

[paul_soryu]

GEngineer's instant yield ability isn't as valuable as GScientist's one, so giving +1 copy to Academies would force the player in the late-game to choose between instant yield and getting some monopoly. But avoiding making GScientists too good is also a legitimate reason to give +1 copy to Manufactory, so that Academies recieved only a minor bonus and there was more excitement to GEngineers.

 

[pineappledan]

Oppida don’t replace any of the regular GPTI, and already have a powerful adjacency effect. Each of the individual GPTIs do something stronger and more focused than the oppidum. If you want a specific resource then you can still just plant a manufactory with celts. It’s a far greater risk if celts can almost triple its bonus resource quantities relative to other civs. Oppida are in no way a substitute for the power of a dedicated citadel either, for instance.

Academies are rural, small town higher education institutes. In my headcannon that either makes them shuyuan or technical institutes. In western tradition these are often places more focused on agriculture and forestry or the trades while the big cities/universities focus on more “pure” sciences and the arts. So I would think of the academies as research stations that add yields by bolstering the techniques and training of people engaged in those nearby industries

 

[redrum68]

Market and Manufactory have special yield mechanics right now

I think you mean Town not Market

 

[pineappledan]

Yes it would be very cool to have this bonus, and the code does exist.
The ResourceExtractionMod exists already, the git blame says Gazebo in 2018
Looking at CvBuilderTaskingAI.cpp seems to suggest the AI would understand that it gives a second copy because it calls these

int iResourceAmount = eResourceFromImprovement != NO_RESOURCE ? pkImprovementInfo->GetResourceQuantityFromImprovement() : pPlot->getNumResource();
int iResourceWeight = GetResourceWeight(eConnectedResource, iResourceAmount);

Oh dang really?
So this is just a database change? Neat!

Updated

 

[Legen]

Yes it would be very cool to have this bonus, and the code does exist.
The ResourceExtractionMod exists already, the git blame says Gazebo in 2018
Looking at CvBuilderTaskingAI.cpp seems to suggest the AI would understand that it gives a second copy because it calls these

int iResourceAmount = eResourceFromImprovement != NO_RESOURCE ? pkImprovementInfo->GetResourceQuantityFromImprovement() : pPlot->getNumResource();
int iResourceWeight = GetResourceWeight(eConnectedResource, iResourceAmount);

Does the code allow for the resource increase to only apply to specific resources? For instance, only luxury resources (not strategic), or only Iron and not Horses? This could be used for a lot of potential uniques, like Indonesia getting one that only applies to their unique luxuries.

 

[hokath]

No, it just takes a x100 value at the moment.
I also don't know if it actually works, lol

Edit: I looked but I couldn't find how ResourceExtractionMod is hooked up, so I'm not sure if the implementation is complete
It feels like pPlot->getNumResourceForPlayer should somehow call it

 

[Stalker0]

That's funny, I imagined that the Manufactory "makes" more of the resource. The Academy provides training to nearby citizens, making them better at their job (adjacency bonus)

Aka the thematics can go either way, so why not just leave what is working alone and change only the academy

 

[Anarcomu]

Does it only include luxury, or also strategic ?
Does it double (in the case of strategic) or merely add one ?

Manufactures could apply to strategic and Academies to luxuries for example, or vice versa (just throwing ideas).

 

[pineappledan]

Luxury and strategic. +1 in both cases

 

[Legen]

Not necessary for this proposal, but, if it gets a DLL sponsor, I'd love to see the code expanded to allow for selection of which resources are eligible for the improvement's resource addition. Maybe in April.

 

[Brackenspore]

Maybe make it the other way around, Academies providing +1 copy (due to "advanced technology of extraction"), and Manufactory providing adjacency bonus? It makes more sense to me for a Manufactory to provide adjacency bonus than for an Academy.

Logically, the Manufactory should provide +1 copy, since it implies intensified production (mass production). This is very similar to Civilization 6, where you can create an Industry on a resource tile. And I like that idea.

As for the Academy on a resource tile, I have the following idea. For example, an Academy on Horses means you're researching how to breed higher-quality horse breeds or develop new breeds for specific functions. Perhaps the Academy should somehow improve Horse Yields (for Horse - Production), or improve the Monopoly effect of Horses, or increase the production speed of mounted units in a city with a Horse Academy, or provide a +XP bonus for mounted units in the city with a Horse Academy. And something similar for Academies on other resources. Overall, this could be a whole new and interesting mod!

 

[pineappledan]

It's more fitting that an academy would augment nearby local economies with better tools, methods, and training.
The manufactory fits better as the one directly on top of a resource because it's raw materials for the processing and manufacturing. You don't put a community college directly on top of a copper mine or a spice plantation in hopes of increasing efficiency.