(9-83) Yamato Changed To Senkan

[Yngwie]

Problems:
Yamato comes too late.
The "iconic" status of "Yamato" blocks other possible ships which could replace it as UU.

Proposal:
Rename "Yamato" to "Senkan" - a standard japanese term for battleships.
Change "Senkan" to be unique Dreadnought instead of Battleship.
Add 25 Unique names to "Senkan".

Spoiler Current Yamato and Battleship :

Yamato - Japanese Unique Battleship	Battleship
Cost: 2,000 / 1,350 Moves: 5 Range: 3 Ranged Strength: 85 Strength: 65 Air Strike Defense: 15 Free Promotions: Armor Plating I Indirect Fire May Not Melee Attack Taikan Kyoho* When Created: +600 Bounty on this Unit: +400 , +400 Required Buildings for Investment: Military Academy, Seaport Prerequisite Technologies: Nuclear Fission Resources Required: 1 Iron	Cost: 1,800 / 1,200 Moves: 5 Range: 2 Ranged Strength: 75 Strength: 60 Air Strike Defense: 15 Free Promotions: Indirect Fire May Not Melee Attack Required Buildings for Investment: Military Academy, Seaport Prerequisite Technologies: Nuclear Fission Becomes Obsolete With: Lasers Resources Required: 1 Iron

Spoiler Proposed Senkan and Current Dreadnought :

Senkan - Japanese Unique Dreadnought	Dreadnought
Cost: 1,450 / 1000 Moves: 4 Range: 3 Ranged Strength: 70 Strength: 55 Air Strike Defense: 10 Free Promotions: Armor Plating I Indirect Fire May Not Melee Attack Taikan Kyoho* When Created: +450 Bounty on this Unit: +300 , +300 Required Buildings for Investment: Seaport Prerequisite Technologies: Radio Becomes Obsolete With: Lasers Resources Required: 1 Iron	Cost: 1,300 / 900 Moves: 4 Range: 2 Ranged Strength: 65 Strength: 50 Air Strike Defense: 10 Free Promotions: May Not Melee Attack Required Buildings for Investment: Seaport Prerequisite Technologies: Radio Becomes Obsolete With: Nuclear Fission Resources Required: 1 Iron

*Promotion Taikan Kyoho - Gain 400% of the Combat Strength of defeated Enemy Units as Great Admiral Points.

Spoiler Proposed 25 Unique names :

• Yamato (大和) - Ancient name for Japan; a province
• Musashi (武蔵) - Province near modern-day Tokyo
• Nagato (長門) - Province in western Honshu
• Mutsu (陸奥) - Large northern province
• Ise (伊勢) - Province home to the Ise Grand Shrine
• Hyūga (日向) - Province in Kyushu
• Fusō (扶桑) - Archaic name for Japan
• Yamashiro (山城) - Province containing Kyoto
• Kongō (金剛) - Named after a mountain (retained name from its BC origin)
• Haruna (榛名) - Named after a volcano
• Hiei (比叡) - Named after a mountain northeast of Kyoto
• Kirishima (霧島) - Named after a volcano
• Shinano (信濃) - Converted to a carrier; a province
• Kaga (加賀) - Converted to a carrier; a province
• Tosa (土佐) - Canceled/used as a target; a province
• Kii (紀伊) - Planned class; a province
• Owari (尾張) - Planned Kii-class; a province
• Suruga (駿河) - Planned Kii-class
• Amagi (天城) - Originally a battlecruiser/battleship design; mountain
• Mikasa (三笠) - Named after a mountain in Nara
• Asahi (朝日) - "Morning Sun"; a poetic name
• Shikishima (敷島) - Poetic name for Japan
• Fuji (富士) - Named after Mount Fuji
• Yashima (八島) - "Eight Islands"; ancient name for Japan
• Settsu (摂津) - Province containing Osaka

Rationale: This solve the problem of late unlock, save "Yamato" as a unique name and represent naval tradition of Japan with other names of battleships and dreadnoughts.

Note: Proposal only address the above mentioned UU and don't conflict with (9-082): https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/9-082-japan-tweaks-torii-ugpti-replaces-the-kabuki.701453/ or other proposals
MAGI: It will need to be considered with https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/9-059-battleship-buff.701371/

 

[hokath]

Usually we only give names to "Great" units, but that's not enshrined or anything.
The names you suggest, were they the names of real ships, then?

And to be clear, a Senkan is identical to a Dreadnought except this promotion, is it?
spoilers have details

 

[Yngwie]

Usually we only give names to "Great" units, but that's not enshrined or anything.
The names you suggest, were they the names of real ships, then?

And to be clear, a Senkan is identical to a Dreadnought except this promotion, is it?

there are names of real ships and planned/cancelled/converted ships.

I've tried to maintain as much as possible from Yamato-Battleship pair, therefore Senkan have +5CS, +5RCS +1 range and inderect fire, beside same Taikan Kyoho, armor plating I and weaker versions of yields on construcion + bounty yields in exchange on proportionally increased Production/Faith Cost

 

[vyyt]

If you want an earlier famous naval UU for Japan, then Mikasa as dreadnought would work well.

It was the (pre-)dreadnought flagship of admiral Togo who crushed the Russian fleet at Tsushima. It's a naval museum now.

Senkan is just a Japanese word for a battleship.

 

[FPXI]

I'm against this entirely. While the unique naming stuff is cool, it's just beyond the scope of what we currently do, and if we're going to start adding unique names for units (not a bad idea, just a lot of work), it should be done across the board and not just for this one case. Moreover, the current Japanese battleship is very fun and we shouldn't mess that up.

 

[vyyt]

I'm against this entirely. While the unique naming stuff is cool, it's just beyond the scope of what we currently do, and if we're going to start adding unique names for units (not a bad idea, just a lot of work), it should be done across the board and not just for this one case. Moreover, the current Japanese battleship is very fun and we shouldn't mess that up.

I haven't tried it yet, but current Yamato does sound fun (and I am not saying it just because I am a WWII navy buff). I agree, leave Yamato alone!!!

 

[paul_soryu]

2 things to note:
1) Yamato currently is more powerful even than its upgrade — Missile Cruisers (5 more RCS and +1 Range). The proposed change makes new UU's RCS 5 worse than Battleship's RCS.
2) I never liked how +1 Range on Yamato is just there instead of being added as a Promotion like any other UU bonus (except CS and RCS).

I would either make +1 Range a promotion which doesn't get removed on upgrade, buffing Battleships and Missile Cruisers, and/or buff RCS to match Battleship's (75). Battleship still has +1 Movement and +5 CS

But honestly I just like how there's currently a UU which is stronger than its upgrade even in raw numbers.

 

[Legen]

I've thought and debated about replacing the Yamato, but ultimately, it's hard to come up with another unit that can match it as both a fun and iconic UU. And the idea that a Yamato would have less CS than a regular Atomic Era Battleship doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Tekamthi]

Yamato is a strong brand for a UU, and there were 2 of this class as I understand, it was both the name of the first and the label applied to ships of this type. It also does a reasonable job of marking a fairly significant appearance in historical record of warfare.

I like the concept of names for ships as a modmod etc. There'd have to be some long lists though, they tend to be some of the most destruction-prone unit lines

 

[pineappledan]

If people want to vote on a better Yamato vs an earlier Yamato vs a mikasa dreadnought (ie an earlier UU replacement in the same line) I think that’s a fine idea.

We could even keep the Yamato as a CS gift if it were removed from Japan. I wonder if the yields on construction work on CS gifts…?

 

[redrum68]

Should this be a counterproposal to 9-59?

 

[Recursive]

We could even keep the Yamato as a CS gift if it were removed from Japan. I wonder if the yields on construction work on CS gifts…?

If they don't, it's a matter of adding a doInstantYield() function call. Not hard.

 

[azum4roll]

It shouldn't though, and should be given to the CS (however little sense that makes) if it does.

 

[Legen]

I sponsor this.

Usually we only give names to "Great" units, but that's not enshrined or anything.

While the unique naming stuff is cool, it's just beyond the scope of what we currently do, and if we're going to start adding unique names for units (not a bad idea, just a lot of work), it should be done across the board and not just for this one case.

It is currently done by Venice with the Great Galleass, 25 unique names as well. I suppose that's why OP selected 25 names for the Senkan.

 

[hokath]

I mean, it's not "Great Senkan"
but it doesn't bother me personally if they have names

 

[pineappledan]

You can obfuscate it with unique names, but it’s still going to be a Yamato class battleship model unlocking at dreadnought

IMHO unique names shouldn’t be used like this, but oh well.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.