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9 Dead in Munich Shooting

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ls612, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Chieftain

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    I am not very familiar with the right-wing scene, but something like "martyrdom in the fight against the traitors of the state" doesn't sound too outlandish to me, at least for the really extremist individuals. Parts of the right follow the idea that the current government is destroying Germany, and that rhetoric has become more mainstream - manifested in the term "Lügenpresse" ("lying press") and similiar diffamations. So singular radicalization seems quite possible.

    Either way, considering the situation the death toll seems relatively low. I'd assume if it had been tightly coordinated, the whole thing could have ended up a lot worse (e.g. blowing up trains in the metro).
     
  2. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    Eh, yes? He targeted left wingers at their party rally. That was transparently right-wing terrorism. And note he never intended to die.

    Now the police is saying one of the 8 dead might be an accomplice.
     
  3. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    Not into this whole consternation-culture at all, but Munich mosques have announced to be open all night for people who need a place to stay, which may be welcome since public transport has ceased and many will struggle to get home.
    That was a gesture of support I really liked for once
     
  4. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    At least 9 dead confirmed now :(

    But yeah, people are showing a lot of solidarity. A lot of open houses offered for those who can't get home due to the city being essentially shut down.
     
  5. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    The scale of the threat really changes when there's more than one shooter. Any nutter can be a lone shooter. But when it's multiple shooters, then you know the memetic base for their evil is somewhat transmissible.
     
  6. Groff

    Groff Chieftain

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    From this video it seems that the attackers were targeting Turks, at least that's what the attacker says. The other people who can be heard in the video (standing on the balcony, talking to the and recording the man on the roof) are speaking serbo-croatian with a bosnian accent (probably muslims).

    https://twitter.com/OnlineMagazin/status/756539012551176194/video/1


    Here's the transcript:

    http://pastebin.com/QE9RviaS

    EDIT: I was wrong and the person who transcribed the video added that there was a mistake:

    ''I have made a mistake in the transcript! After relistening it is NOT the shooter saying "****ing turks" it is offscreen voice''
     
  7. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    I hope German police can resolve this quickly.

    On a different note, I love this window into luiz's thought process.

    News Agencies: No information on the shooters.
    Luiz: It's probably Muslims.
    Posters: Unconfirmed reports it might be neo-nazis.
    luiz: Nah, probably Muslims.

    Moderator Action: please do not troll - ori
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  8. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    To translate "Kanacke" as"foreigners, basically" just seems lazy. Its a slur for darker skinned-foreigners, excluding blacks. Blacks have their own words, as you all know. Simple as that.

    And I know I am terribly for wanting to be correct when it comes to the bad guys, but in practice and effects it is a quit different thing to use a slur for all foreigners (which does not even exist in German) or for darker skinned-foreigners. Not because of the color itself, naturally, but for the people at large spotting them and living in Germany. Again I know it is terribly to judge people by skin color, but there are strong tendencies in comparison and that matters to understand anything about this. The stereo-typing is stereo-typing, but it does not happen in a vacuum.
     
  9. kronic

    kronic Chieftain

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    The video is hard to transcribe because it's not easy to say how many people are shouting. It may be three people. At some point, the supposed shooter mumbles how he was mobbed/bullied.

    In the end, it could turn out that it's nothing more than that. A relatively young guy who got mobbed at school, had mental issues and spent many years in therapy, not to the greatest success, apparently, and finally killed others and himself. No terrorism involved. Unless of course they do find more shooters.
     
  10. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    1- go to hell, boy. This thread is about a multiple murder, go take your trolling to your circle jerk threads. Not here.


    Moderator Action: please refrain from personal attacks on other usesrs - even if provoked. Better report and move on. -ori
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    2- I don't know if you noticed but just this week an afghani kid attacked people with an axe in a train in Bávaria in the name of the Islamic state, and last week dozens were killed in Nice in the name of the same organization. There is a major wave of Islamist attacks in Europe right now, and this looks much more like one than some neonazi hit. My second guess would be a mentally disturbed individual, and far-right violence would be very distant. But still possible.

    But Germany has been targeted by several Islamist attacks in the last 12 months, all foiled by the police or intelligence services (except for the train attack this week and maybe this one). But the threat is obviously here, and there's no reason why Germany shouldn't expect the sort of massive Islamist attacks that hit France and Belgium. Anyone who thinks otherwise lives in denial land.
     
  11. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    So the implication is exactly the opposite of what you originally posted?
     
  12. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Careful. Looks like he doesn't appreciate you peeping in his windows.

    Absolutely appears to be accurate though.
     
  13. Groff

    Groff Chieftain

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    Terxpahseyton clarified the meaning of the slur so it seems that the attacker (at least the one showed on the roof) is probably of foreign (middle eastern) origin. Nothing officially confirmed.
     
  14. kramerfan86

    kramerfan86 Chieftain

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    Its either right wing nut jobs or muslim extremists, I think it can be narrowed down to those two fairly easily. I honestly somewhat hope its some right wingers because continued violence by muslims is going to continue to awaken a previously relatively dormant, but incredibly nasty side of European civilization.
     
  15. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    It's a bit further than that; it's the endpoint of U1.

    Used to be where I did most of my shopping.

    I think this is a useful jumping off point for discussing the "let's not jump to conclusions" v "you're just trying to be politically correct" argument which seems to underpin the disagreement in this thread. I think the issue is trying to push this into a narrative, and trying to avoid pushing it into a narrative.

    Let's say, for the sake of argument, that this attack was carried out by a German mit Migrationshintergrund, maybe Turkish, angry at anti-foreigner sentiment in Germany. Now, this relates to immigration & German culture. One the one hand, this could be said to follow a similar pattern as was seen with the Nice attack in France - a foreigner attacking locals over culture. But that would be a deeply misleading comparison. North African immigration to France and Turkish immigration to Germany are wildly different. There is a particular French characteristic to the Nice attack, and in this hypothetical, there's a particular German characteristic to the Munich attack. So what benefit is derived from jamming the two events into the one overarching 'terrorism is everywhere' narrative? It really only seems to create a sense of apocalyptic panic, when you've got very distinct characteristics in play. That broad and misleading narrative is reinforced, as more events are seen through that lens, with their unique characteristics being parsed out in order to force a fit into the narrative, preventing proper analysis of each event.

    So when people say that we should not just jump to conclusions, it's not saying that we shouldn't perhaps expect as a matter of percentages that terrorist attacks carried out in Europe do have some sort of link to Islamic extremism, in the same way that there might have been an expectation in previous decades that a German attack would have some sort of link to the RAF. Rather, it's saying that we shouldn't be so quick to disengage our brains from an examination of the particularities of individual attacks in our rush to fit each individual incident into a broad and hugely generalising narrative which only really serves to create fear and magnify a threat.

    Those really aren't the only options, though, but I suspect it's assumed they are because we're living in a time where people immediately jump to 'terrorism', being a term defined by political extremes, rather than actions.

    I've read some comments that 'maybe this isn't terrorism', and I'm not actually sure what that means. I think it's meant to mean that maybe it isn't an attack animated by either Islamic extremism or neo-Nazism, but then why would an attack have to be animated by those particular forms of political ideology in order to qualify as 'terrorism'? Probably because, in our current discourse, such an inextricable semantic link has been created.

    If, for example, this is an attack carried out by a disaffected German youth of Turkish extraction, that doesn't suddenly mean it's not 'terrorism'. But it does mean that it isn't terrorism of an identical variety to any other terrorist attack we've seen of recent times.
     
  16. kronic

    kronic Chieftain

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    It's more likely just a mentally ill guy. Police now says they think it was the one guy they found dead a few hours ago.
     
  17. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    The BBC says a team from GSG 9 have arrived in Munich.
     
  18. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    Fun fact: GSG9 beat Navy Seals (and everyone else) in some dumb special forces contest. (In 2014)
    Just thought I'd add to the first fun fact.

    Presumably traveling to nearby big cities wasn't part of the competition.
     
  19. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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  20. kronic

    kronic Chieftain

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    Shooter is a 18 year old German of Iranian descent, says Munich police chief. He also held dual citizenship (Germany/Iran).
     

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