[DLL] (9-NS) "Council of Elders" rework

[Yngwie]

Problem:
Now Council of Elders scaling gradually with Current formula* per following City, therefore it's rarely worth picking.
so you have 2 problem with this pantheon:
1) Not converted Cities became rare fast enough - no eligible Cities in safe distance.
2) Current yields became obsolete fast enough if you don't spread like a maniac, compared to beliefs which "scaling with followers" or "scaling with Era"

Spoiler Current formula from (7-23) by hokath :

Note: for the scaling part, the code has a comment which reads "scaler = +(X^2)% where X is the number of cities following the religion"
I understand this to mean that when you have all 25 Cities, you will get 145 yields, up from 20.
Some numbers would be:
5 cities---25
10 cities--40
15 cities--65
20 cities--100

Rationale: Since the main limitation for this pantheon is number of not converted Cities, it does not need current strict scaling which turned out to be double punishment. Therefore it is proposed to change source of "scaling gradually" from Cities to Followers and make it more clear to +1 Science and Production per Follower.

Current Council of Elders:
When a City adopts your Religion for the first time, gain 20 Science and Production in your Holy City, scaling gradually based on the number of Cities following your Religion (bonus caps at 25 Cities). Unlocks Holy Council National Wonder (+4 Faith, +5 Food; +5 Science from Holy Sites; unlocks Reformation Belief).

Proposed Council of Elders:
When a City adopts your Religion for the first time, gain 20 Science and Production in your Holy City and +1 Science and Production additionally for each Follower of your Religion before spread action (max 250 Followers). Unlocks Holy Council National Wonder (+4 Faith, +5 Food; +5 Science from Holy Sites; unlocks Reformation Belief).

 

[Stalker0]

MAGI: What is the "gradualar scaling" that your proposal wants to use? @Yngwie

 

[Yngwie]

MAGI: What is the "gradualar scaling" that your proposal wants to use? @Yngwie

Same as current. Now it's +1 Science and Production per City. I propose +1 Science and Production per Follower

 

[axatin]

Now Council of Elders scaling gradually by +1 Science and Production per following City

This is not how the scaling works, see https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/7-23-council-of-elders-rebalance.688912/

 

[Stalker0]

Same as current. Now it's +1 Science and Production per City. I propose +1 Science and Production per Follower

Using an example to ensure I understand.

1) First city, lets say I convert 6 followers. Do I get 26 s/p, or 20 for my first city? (aka does the followers you just converted count, or is it your previous followers when you spread).
2) Lets say I have 6 followers, but as I go to spread I get 1 extra follower. So would it be 27 s/p on the next conversion?

 

[Yngwie]

This is not how the scaling works, see https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/7-23-council-of-elders-rebalance.688912/

Oh, thanks. I just converted few Cities with this belief therefore it was 20, then 21 etc. So, I got it as +1 per City. I will amend that part.

Using an example to ensure I understand.

1) First city, lets say I convert 6 followers. Do I get 26 s/p, or 20 for my first city? (aka does the followers you just converted count, or is it your previous followers when you spread).
2) Lets say I have 6 followers, but as I go to spread I get 1 extra follower. So would it be 27 s/p on the next conversion?

Will add clarification right now. It's count before spread action.

 

[notaspambot]

Just noting that while Council of Elders has been mentioned to be weak for players, it looks to have performed pretty well in terms of both pick and win rates during the recent AI playtests.

 

[FPXI]

I actually think Council of Elders is in an okay place and other stuff should come down to where it is.

 

[azum4roll]

This belief is already insane if you're the only founder on your continent. Spread to half of each non-founder's cities and let them spread to themselves, gaining yields for free.

 

[hokath]

I was going to say, the trigger atm is "when a City adopts your Religion for the first time"
but the proposal is
When a City adopts your Religion for the first time, gain 20 Science and Production in your Holy City and +1 Science and Production additionally for each Follower of your Religion before spread action (max 250 Followers).
Which implies the conversion has to occur due to a spread action.
I am assuming you didn't mean that? Could you clarify?

An alternative way to achieve this might be to use the effect Evangelism has instead. Spread action gives yields based on various factors, no conversion involved.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.