[Database] (9-NS) Rename "Architecture" Technology to "Linear Perspective"

[Brackenspore]

Motivation

Even before the mod Vox Populi appeared, I was already uneasy about the name "Architecture". So, does that mean there was no Architecture in the Middle Ages, Antiquity, or the Ancient World? I don't even know how to answer that question. Architecture as a specific activity originated in Ancient times. As a science, Architecture began to develop in Antiquity (this is even mentioned in the historical background of this technology!). Clearly, the current name of the technology is inappropriate. If we had the Architecture technology in the Classical Era, that would be a different matter. But it's in the Renaissance Era now. Therefore, this name should be removed for the Renaissance technology.

Proposal

Rename "Architecture" to "Linear Perspective".

Rationale

I chose this variant for the following reasons:
1. Historically, it has been originated, studied and applied since this era. These articles provide a detailed examination of the history of Perspective and its varieties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_(graphical), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Brunelleschi#Linear_perspective, https://www.essentialvermeer.com/technique/perspective/history.html.
2. The word "Perspective" (shorter) won't do because it's more abstract and refers to the various types of perspective that existed in both the Middle Ages and Antiquity. But we need the Renaissance.
3. This technology opens the Gallery building. Therefore, if the technology is thematically linked to graphic art, it will be a successful combination. Linear perspective has been widely used in architecture, which is a good match for the wonders this technology can reveal.

Small lyrical digression

Spoiler :

I also considered the Ideal City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_city). This concept was also actively explored and promoted during the Renaissance. But I still consider this variant weaker than Linear Perspective. However, if anyone likes it, you can create a counter-proposal. Due to Congress rules, I can't add it to my topic. Even Ideal City would be better than Architecture.

New historical info (instead of Architecture info):

Spoiler :

Linear perspective, the mathematical system for creating 3D depth on 2D surfaces using vanishing points and horizon lines, was formalized and widely adopted during the Italian Renaissance, attributed to architect Filippo Brunelleschi around 1415. While earlier cultures (Greeks, Romans, Egyptians) hinted at depth, Brunelleschi developed the systematic rules, soon mastered by artists like Masaccio, Leonardo da Vinci, and Albrecht Dürer, revolutionizing Western art by creating realistic, immersive spaces.

New quote (instead of Architecture quote): "Art for Art's sake is an empty phrase. Art for the sake of truth, art for the sake of the good and the beautiful, that is the faith I am searching for". - George Sand

New icon: But here's where the problem arises. The current icon barely matches the proposed name. Furthermore, I'm not an artist and can't provide an icon I designed myself. Therefore, do I have the right to propose a renaming of the technology if I can't provide my own icon? If not, then this thread should be closed immediately. If icon creation falls to the shoulders of those implementing the proposal, then I'm lucky.

On the other hand, I found an icon that suits the new name. But I want to emphasize that it's not mine. If anyone here is extremely, extremely concerned about copyright, then difficulties could arise. Although I doubt in my life that the author of this icon would cause a scandal or file a lawsuit (most likely, the author of this icon hasn't played this game for a long time).

 

[hokath]

I think you can probably get away with just "Perspective"
In the wikipedia article you cited, they use the term that way, e.g.

It is generally accepted that Filippo Brunelleschi conducted a series of experiments between 1415 and 1420, which included making drawings of various Florentine buildings in correct perspective.[19] According to Vasari and Antonio Manetti, in about 1420, Brunelleschi demonstrated his discovery of perspective by having people look through a hole on his painting from the backside.

I don't think you necessarily need to change the icon. The technical drawing fits.
If you want to, though, we do need to know where the icon is from. We do have permission to use some people's work.

 

[pineappledan]

Changing the technology quote is an absolute deal breaker for me.
If you change the quote we lose the voice lines.

 

[Chinag]

The current effect of the Architecture tech is as follows:

Wonders Unlocked:
• Porcelain Tower
• Taj Mahal

Buildings Unlocked:
• Gallery
• Royal Collection
• American Independence Hall
• French Salon

Specialist Changes:
• Artists: +1 🎵 Culture

Yield Changes:
• Town: +3 🌾 Food
• Celtic Oppidum: +1 🌾 Food
• Celtic Oppidum: +1 🕊️ Faith
• Chinese Siheyuan: +1 🔨 Production
• Chinese Siheyuan: +1 ⚗️ Science
• Egyptian Obelisk: +2 🎵 Culture
• Moroccan Kasbah: +1 💰 Gold
• Moroccan Kasbah: +1 🎵 Culture
• Polynesian Moai: +1 🎵 Culture
• Polynesian Moai: +-1 Border Growth Points
• Spanish Hacienda: +2 🎵 Culture

It's basically a split between representing Architecture as an art and representing advanced construction. I can see the argument for linear perspective perhaps applying to the construction of the new Wonders, but a lot of improvements to Unique Improvements are bundled into the tech too.

 

[Brackenspore]

The current effect of the Architecture tech is as follows:

Wonders Unlocked:
• Porcelain Tower
• Taj Mahal

Buildings Unlocked:
• Gallery
• Royal Collection
• American Independence Hall
• French Salon

Specialist Changes:
• Artists: +1 🎵 Culture

Yield Changes:
• Town: +3 🌾 Food
• Celtic Oppidum: +1 🌾 Food
• Celtic Oppidum: +1 🕊️ Faith
• Chinese Siheyuan: +1 🔨 Production
• Chinese Siheyuan: +1 ⚗️ Science
• Egyptian Obelisk: +2 🎵 Culture
• Moroccan Kasbah: +1 💰 Gold
• Moroccan Kasbah: +1 🎵 Culture
• Polynesian Moai: +1 🎵 Culture
• Polynesian Moai: +-1 Border Growth Points
• Spanish Hacienda: +2 🎵 Culture

It's basically a split between representing Architecture as an art and representing advanced construction. I can see the argument for linear perspective perhaps applying to the construction of the new Wonders, but a lot of improvements to Unique Improvements are bundled into the tech too.

The name of a technology and its effects are related. However, a connection between ABSOLUTELY every effect and the technology isn't required if there are a lot of effects (and in the VP, there are a lot of effects). Consider the Biology, which unlocks the Statue of Liberty and the International Financial Center (where's the connection between the technology name and its effects???). Consider the Railroad, which unlocks Neuschwanstein (where's the connection between the technology name and its effects???). And there are many such examples. Don't try to reduce everything to absurdity. Moreover, Linear Perspective is actively used in architecture. Improvements are architectural forms. So there you have the connection.

Spoiler :

I already see in the second topic that you seem to be trying to troll me or engage in demagoguery (I hope I'm wrong). I'm still waiting in the thread about Hydraulic Despotism for your proof that the names of the policies of the Ancient Eras MUST have one-word names.

 

[Brackenspore]

I think you can probably get away with just "Perspective"
In the wikipedia article you cited, they use the term that way, e.g.


I don't think you necessarily need to change the icon. The technical drawing fits.
If you want to, though, we do need to know where the icon is from. We do have permission to use some people's work.

You see, my entire complaint about the current names revolves around the unfortunate substitution of generic terms for specific terms. Generic concepts are more general words that unite a group of similar objects (for example, “furniture”), and specific concepts are specific words from this group (table, sofa, armchair). In our case: Architecture is a generic concept. Almost all generic concepts emerged in the Ancient/Classical Eras. Why call Renaissance technology a generic concept when there are various specific concepts? Likewise, Perspective is a generic concept (perspective existed in both the Middle Ages and Antiquity). Linear perspective is a specific concept, a specific technology of fine art that emerged specifically in the Renaissance.

The Renaissance's specific concepts for Architecture are Classicism and Mannerism. In principle, you could create counter-proposals with these names. They would be better (more specific) than Architecture or Perspective (though I personally consider them weaker variants, but for other, more specific reasons ).

If I could submit counter-proposals to my own proposals, I could create threads with alternative titles. But the rules...

Spoiler :

"A proposer is not allowed to submit a counterproposal to their own proposal; that is to say, they may not submit a proposal which directly conflicts with a proposal that they have already made during this session. Two proposals, one of which adds 2 Gold to the Granary and one of which adds 3 Gold to the Granary, would be considered directly conflicting. Multiple proposals which affect the same mechanic may be submitted if they do not directly conflict, but the Magi may require that they be merged at their discretion."

Although, if the main thing for me is that I want to cancel the current name, can this be considered a non-contradiction, allowing me to create several topics with alternative names?

 

[Brackenspore]

If you change the quote we lose the voice lines.

No. I just conducted the following experiment on purpose. I changed the text of the quote for the Astronomy technology. Original: "Joyfully to the breeze royal Odysseus spread his sail, and with his rudder skillfully he steered." New:

The voiceover still exists. The announcer recited an OLD quote. Therefore, if you change the text of a quote, only the text will change, but the voice will remain and read the old text. In other words, there will simply be a discrepancy between the text and the audio. In general, I'm providing a new quote and new historical information simply because I don't know whether Congressional rules require this from the author of such a proposal. A new quote and new historical information in this case are NOT a proposal.

 

[Chinag]

I already see in the second topic that you seem to be trying to troll me or engage in demagoguery (I hope I'm wrong). I'm still waiting in the thread about Hydraulic Despotism for your proof that the names of the policies of the Ancient Eras MUST have one-word names.

No, there isn't anything sinister or "trolly" about my comments. It's just observations I made when reading your prompts. I like to read the original threads for any proposals to see the discussion as I prefer that the proposals been thoroughly seen by others instead of just passing by with minimal engagement.

Renaming stuff is quite inconsequential in the scheme of things that it's both "there isn't a problem with renaming this thing" and "this isn't a problem so why are we renaming this thing." Still doesn't mean they're open for discussion or changes in the proposal phase, like when East Indie Company was renamed

I didn't comment more on the other thread because by the next morning most people have already mentioned the same reason it irked me. I didn't have a reason to say the same things again.

 

[hokath]

The name of a technology and its effects are related. However, a connection between ABSOLUTELY every effect and the technology isn't required if there are a lot of effects (and in the VP, there are a lot of effects).

That's a valid point. They're more like themed temporal markers, like the Biology case.

Don't try to reduce everything to absurdity.

I don't think he was. The thought occurred to me also.

Why call Renaissance technology a generic concept when there are various specific concepts?

I agree with you

Likewise, Perspective is a generic concept (perspective existed in both the Middle Ages and Antiquity). Linear perspective is a specific concept, a specific technology of fine art that emerged specifically in the Renaissance

While it might be true from an art history point of view, if I read the word "perspective" in this context, I imagine vanishing points and accurate proportions, i.e. the Renaissance concept.
You can see this in other techs as well. Take, for example, Education. Obviously this is not a Medieval concept, but it is referring to institutionalized education, i.e. universities.
So I'm not against Linear Perspective as a name, I just think Perspective alone is more palatable and would gain more vote. I guess we can find out!

In other words, there will simply be a discrepancy between the text and the audio.

Yeah I don't think we should have that. We should keep the old quote.

 

[Brackenspore]

While it might be true from an art history point of view, if I read the word "perspective" in this context, I imagine vanishing points and accurate proportions, i.e. the Renaissance concept.
You can see this in other techs as well. Take, for example, Education. Obviously this is not a Medieval concept, but it is referring to institutionalized education, i.e. universities.
So I'm not against Linear Perspective as a name, I just think Perspective alone is more palatable and would gain more vote. I guess we can find out!

There's another (purely technical) aspect to the naming structure. A one-word name is shorter than a two-word name, so it takes up less space. In Civilization, the amount of space for letters is largely limited. Therefore, if a name consists of several words, it may sometimes begin to "span" beyond the space or look like an "incomplete word" with ellipses. This can be aesthetically inferior to single-word names. But only aesthetically, not substantively. Recently, I saw an idea in the Discord proposal workshop that suggested clarifying the names of Civilizations based on the adoption of policies (for example, the English Republic/Monarchy/Fascist Republic/Communist Republic instead of England). This is very similar to what I'm proposing (wanting to clarify and concretize the terms). And in that thread, someone pointed out the problem of the increased word count, which could lead to bloated names.

I wrote all this to show that perhaps people's tastes are based on this, first and foremost. For example, I encountered no resistance to renaming Navigation to Atlas. The new name is even shorter than the current one. Unfortunately, it's impossible for every name to be one word. And clarifying names, specific names, most often have two words (the first word is the clarifying one). For example, Education, which you cited, is also in my sights . This technology should be called Teritary Education or Higher Education (if we want accuracy and historical authenticity) . Because universities = Teritary Education, but Education itself (as a general concept) emerged with human civilization (in ancient times).

 

[hokath]

There's a fundamental clash with the intention of the original developers, at least where the text is concerned, isn't there.
Like Engineering, for example, has pedia text which reads

Which provides no information whatsoever about Engineering as a "discovery"
Or what they mean by Engineering in the context of the Classical period in which the tech is found.

Perhaps a larger project to systematically rewrite such text would be of value? What do you think?

 

[Brackenspore]

There's a fundamental clash with the intention of the original developers, at least where the text is concerned, isn't there.
Like Engineering, for example, has pedia text which reads
View attachment 752782
Which provides no information whatsoever about Engineering as a "discovery"
Or what they mean by Engineering in the context of the Classical period in which the tech is found.

Perhaps a larger project to systematically rewrite such text would be of value? What do you think?

Yes, this is a very good example of the problem I'm trying to address in my proposals. We have a technology (Engineering) that's basically well-named and historically placed, but its historical information is completely inadequate! Only the first sentence is acceptable (Engineering is the science (or art perhaps) of designing complex materials, structures, devices, and systems). Everything else describes 19th-century technology and doesn't apply to ancient technology. There's absolutely no mention of Archimedes and his engineering ideas (the great engineer of antiquity), or Vitruvius (who laid the foundations of architecture and engineering), or Imhotep (Egypt). This is exactly what should be in the description.

And so it is with many things: either the technology's name doesn't match its era, or the historical information doesn't match the era of the technology. It seems the game designers lacked their own knowledge and reference information when creating many of the names (not just in the tech tree). Incidentally, this is observed in both Civ 6 and Civ 7. In different game series, the same names jump around in different eras, and the historical descriptions sometimes give you goosebumps.

Therefore, ideally, in the future, this should become a large project to rewrite, clarify, and supplement the Names and Texts. Civilization is also very Eurocentric in its Names and Texts, this is a well-known fact (and this is Civilization 5, not Europa Universalis 5). And I hope that at the next Congress, the rules regarding proposals related to Names and Texts changes will be expanded.

I'd also like to point out that Civilization serves a certain educational function (I think this was even mentioned in an interview with game designers). So, compare (again, I'm talking about my proposal). Many people know the word "Architecture" and its meaning. But how many know what Linear Perspective is? If someone encounters this term, they might be interested in learning more about it. Who knows, maybe this term will draw them into the fascinating world of painting, and a schoolchild/student might even want to become a realist artist. Thus, more specific terms make the game smarter in some way.

 

[hokath]

Yes I completely agree.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.