Here we go. It's the big one.
Motivation:
In previous versions of VP scouting class units have changed a lot in an attempt to find their best design.
Currently Scouts have 3 Moves base and learn to ignore terrain costs by their promotions.
There are various opinions on this, and I expect several counterproposals.
My personal opinion is based mainly on the "super scout" phenomenon, whereby your starting (and sometimes second) Pathfinder get so many promotions, so fast, that they reach levels like 7 or 8 before your first war, effectively gaining Trailblazer III and Survivalism III and also finding an upgrade to the Scout unit. This then let's you completely smash your first target, including on high difficulties. You can look at several recently Deity playthroughs on the discord to see this sort of thing in action, like the Portugal game of Alpa
AI has recently improved to use Scouts against the player, which is really cool, and I think maybe people are starting to see why these highly promoted scouts are unreasonable.
The other effect of Scouts with such high movement (and also bonuses to vision) so early is this has is you get to reveal the map very quickly, which for me is against the spirit of Civ's "explore" phase. You should need to invest a bit more to get hold of the altas.
Trailblazer III let's you stand on Mountains, which together with Sight improvements (Trailblazer I and Scouting) reveal HUGE amounts of tiles, which then feedback and give you even more XP.
This particular feedback loop should specifically be addressed.
Finally, it's a bit boring (and a huge noob trap) to have to pick Trailblazer all the time.
I have cut down my very large Recon Rework to only the bare minimum required to address the above problems.
Proposal:
Implementation Notes:
This is all database code playable here.
Mountaineer uses the Altitude Training mountain icon
Ski Infantry promo uses the White Walker icon
References:
New Celts pantheon also have this same Mountaineer promo (allowing them quicker access to Ski Infantry)
This is a counterproposal to
Motivation:
In previous versions of VP scouting class units have changed a lot in an attempt to find their best design.
Currently Scouts have 3 Moves base and learn to ignore terrain costs by their promotions.
There are various opinions on this, and I expect several counterproposals.
My personal opinion is based mainly on the "super scout" phenomenon, whereby your starting (and sometimes second) Pathfinder get so many promotions, so fast, that they reach levels like 7 or 8 before your first war, effectively gaining Trailblazer III and Survivalism III and also finding an upgrade to the Scout unit. This then let's you completely smash your first target, including on high difficulties. You can look at several recently Deity playthroughs on the discord to see this sort of thing in action, like the Portugal game of Alpa
AI has recently improved to use Scouts against the player, which is really cool, and I think maybe people are starting to see why these highly promoted scouts are unreasonable.
The other effect of Scouts with such high movement (and also bonuses to vision) so early is this has is you get to reveal the map very quickly, which for me is against the spirit of Civ's "explore" phase. You should need to invest a bit more to get hold of the altas.
Trailblazer III let's you stand on Mountains, which together with Sight improvements (Trailblazer I and Scouting) reveal HUGE amounts of tiles, which then feedback and give you even more XP.
This particular feedback loop should specifically be addressed.
Finally, it's a bit boring (and a huge noob trap) to have to pick Trailblazer all the time.
I have cut down my very large Recon Rework to only the bare minimum required to address the above problems.
Proposal:
- Scout Units
- Have 2 Movement base (down from 3)
- Start with "Adventurer" that gives Ignore Terrain Cost from:
Not included: Crossing rivers, Marsh, Snow- Forest
- Jungle
- Hill
- Desert
- New Promotions for Scouting Units
The idea is you choose promotions if you come across difficult terrain that you need to deal with- Can learn Amphibious with Survivalism I or Trailblazer I
To regain the Rivers and Marsh movement- Eliminate combat penalties for attacking from the sea or over a river.
- Crossing a river costs only 1
Movement. - Ignore Terrain Cost in Marsh.
- Can learn Mountaineer with Survivalism I or Trailblazer II
To cross Mountains- +20% Attack in Hills
- Can move through Mountains
- Can learn Ski Infantry with Mountaineer
To move easily through Snow- Double Movement and no costs in Snow and Mountain
- +25% Attack in Mountain
- +30% Defense in Snow
- Can learn Amphibious with Survivalism I or Trailblazer I
- Trailblazer Rework
Less about exploring, more about combat, to create a meaningful choice with Survivalism
The "icon" effects of "leaf" and "temperature" are interpreted as overcoming the combat effects of those terrains- Trailblazer I
+1 Sight and Embarked Sight.Ignore Terrain Cost in Forest, Jungle, and Hill.- +25% Attack in Forest and Jungle
- +10% Strength outside Friendly Territory
- Trailblazer II
+1 Movement and Embarked Movement.Ignore Terrain Cost in Desert, Snow, and Marsh.Eliminate combat penalties for attacking over a river.Crossing a river costs only 1 Movement.- +20% Defense in Tundra and Desert
I would like to add combat malus to these terrains, again, but it's out of scope for this proposal - +10% Strength outside Friendly Territory
- Trailblazer III
Must compete with Survivalism III+20%
Combat Strength Outside of Friendly Territory.Can Embark, cross Mountains, and use Enemy Roads/Railroads.
Note: When this was first introduced, only units that came into friendly borders after the tech was unlocked could learn Embark. Now this requirement is gone.Ignore Zone of Control.- +1 Move (on land only)
So it doesnt help embarked exploration - Can move after attacking
So you are like a 3 move mounted unit and can hit-and-run people - Ignore Zone of Control
- Trailblazer I
Implementation Notes:
This is all database code playable here.
Mountaineer uses the Altitude Training mountain icon
Ski Infantry promo uses the White Walker icon
References:
New Celts pantheon also have this same Mountaineer promo (allowing them quicker access to Ski Infantry)
This is a counterproposal to
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