Posidonius
Civherder
Ohhhhhh, so that's why the wishlists of various players include being able to save the game in 4000 BC. You can do this with Civ1-Win, i just never bothered to see what the fuss was about. Now i finally understand.
If you start on a large-enough landmass, you can always win, even on Emperor level. I'm betting that most people who play Emperor games avail themselves of the "fast Settler" cheat as the only way to survive on a natural un-modded 7-civ map, and it takes dozens of turns anyway. But there's a much quicker way to win, using only the save-restart cheat and a large-land scenario, and if you can save the game in 4000 BC.
The difference between 4000 BC and 3980 BC is enormous, because in 4000 your rivals are just larval Settler units, meek little bunnies, but by 3980 they've all morphed into little cities. And at Emperor level, they start roaring like a lion right away.
It's like the old joke about the lightbulb and the pregnant woman, you can unscrew the lightbulb, but you can't force a rival civilization's city to disband back into a Settler unit. But you can get free Cavalry and Legion units from huts, and with units, you can prevent your rivals from ever founding cities in the first place. You can force them to stay in the bunny state forever, while you suddenly appear in 3980 BC with a 10-city empire all completely connected and irrigated.
I tried this, with a start-square on a crappy NW corner of a pretty large continent. Estimate it's about 450 squares of land, so it's fairly big. I saved in 4000 BC, moved the original Settler around to a hut, and hit that shack with 2 save-restarts until it turned into a free Cavalry.
There were 21 huts on this landmass. Getting them all to turn into free Cavalries took about 200 cycles, but by that time the original Settler had prepped and connected 7 vacant citysites, all without using the "fast-Settler" cheat. Using the fast-Settler cheat, or with a double-Settler start, the results could have been dramatic.
Along the way, found four rivals had spawned on this same landmass: Mongols, Germans, Egypt and England. But they were all caught frozen in time at 4000 BC as helpless Settlers, and with 21 Cavs i can ensnare them so they will never build capitals. Once the clock starts rolling into 3980 BC, i can herd all the bunnies up into harmless squares on mountaintops, and will have only two offshore rivals to contend with. Even on Emperor level, that's an automatic win.
But here's the deeper opportunity: with enough restart cycles in 4000 BC, and at least one free military unit, you can choose which eligible huts turn into free cities. By exploring before choosing, you can locate your capital centrally, minimizing corruption early on. In my trial run, 1/3 of the huts were on viable citysites, meaning Plains or Shieldgrass squares. Another 4 huts were on squares which could give a free city but not a shield resource.
Instead of 21 Cavalries, i could have started 4000 BC with 10 cities, 10 Cavs and a Leg. Or 7 hot cities, 4 Cavalries and 500 gp in the bank, which means Pyramids and declaring myself a democracy in 3820 BC. The point is, when you can save and move before the rival bunnies graduate into rival cities, you get all the huts, so you can have whatever kind of empire you want, all prepared and ready to spring into action in 4000 BC.
One more facet to it: in 4000 BC a hut will never turn into a free tech. But after that, you can get free techs even before you have a city. With strategic restarts and reserving certain huts for later, i could have started 4000 BC with 6 cities each with a fully developed fat-cross area, 4 Cavs to neutralize the 4 rival Settler-civs, and 1 Cav to hit the other 10 huts in 3980 BC.
With patience and restarts, 10 huts in 3980 BC means going from Mysticism to Magnetism when your empire is 20 years old. Six Frigates + five freelance Cavalries in 3800 BC, now tell me that's not a guaranteed win on Emperor? If you're going for a full conquest win, you need 12 kills. In 4000 BC, in this scenario, i can put 4 down right out of the gate, actually while still in the gate, then with the Cavs spread out to cover likely respawn spots, could get 7-8 kills by 3960.
Now one more experiment, this one for full glory.... i have save-games where the AI spawned all 7 civs on the same landmass. Do the math here. If that landmass has got 20 huts and you can patiently milk those huts for whatever you want, then you can get 6 Legions and 14 Cavalry units, all into position before the game even starts. Put the Leg's next to 6 rival bunnies, and spread the Cavs out to likely-looking respawn spots.
Ta daaaa, with an army like that you can kill 6 rival Settlers while it's still 4000 BC, and have a sporting chance of catching the 6 helpless respawns in 3980 BC. With respawn luck (or a few more save-restarts), you can even end the game in 3980 BC. Yes, 3980 BC.
It's a One Turn Win only using 1 cheat, but heavy reliance on that save-restart cheat. You need a world with a big continent, and, it only works when you can save the game in 4000 BC. Pity it can't be the Zero Turn Win, but if you kill a rival civ in its bunny Setty incarnation in 4000 BC, you still need an end-turn routine for the respawn to happen; a save-restart is not enough to wipe the dead civ off the books.
What i have not tried yet, is getting 12 kills before i have founded a city. Not sure if it's possible to win the game with zero population, but you can bet i'm gonna try.
If you start on a large-enough landmass, you can always win, even on Emperor level. I'm betting that most people who play Emperor games avail themselves of the "fast Settler" cheat as the only way to survive on a natural un-modded 7-civ map, and it takes dozens of turns anyway. But there's a much quicker way to win, using only the save-restart cheat and a large-land scenario, and if you can save the game in 4000 BC.
The difference between 4000 BC and 3980 BC is enormous, because in 4000 your rivals are just larval Settler units, meek little bunnies, but by 3980 they've all morphed into little cities. And at Emperor level, they start roaring like a lion right away.
It's like the old joke about the lightbulb and the pregnant woman, you can unscrew the lightbulb, but you can't force a rival civilization's city to disband back into a Settler unit. But you can get free Cavalry and Legion units from huts, and with units, you can prevent your rivals from ever founding cities in the first place. You can force them to stay in the bunny state forever, while you suddenly appear in 3980 BC with a 10-city empire all completely connected and irrigated.
I tried this, with a start-square on a crappy NW corner of a pretty large continent. Estimate it's about 450 squares of land, so it's fairly big. I saved in 4000 BC, moved the original Settler around to a hut, and hit that shack with 2 save-restarts until it turned into a free Cavalry.
There were 21 huts on this landmass. Getting them all to turn into free Cavalries took about 200 cycles, but by that time the original Settler had prepped and connected 7 vacant citysites, all without using the "fast-Settler" cheat. Using the fast-Settler cheat, or with a double-Settler start, the results could have been dramatic.
Along the way, found four rivals had spawned on this same landmass: Mongols, Germans, Egypt and England. But they were all caught frozen in time at 4000 BC as helpless Settlers, and with 21 Cavs i can ensnare them so they will never build capitals. Once the clock starts rolling into 3980 BC, i can herd all the bunnies up into harmless squares on mountaintops, and will have only two offshore rivals to contend with. Even on Emperor level, that's an automatic win.
But here's the deeper opportunity: with enough restart cycles in 4000 BC, and at least one free military unit, you can choose which eligible huts turn into free cities. By exploring before choosing, you can locate your capital centrally, minimizing corruption early on. In my trial run, 1/3 of the huts were on viable citysites, meaning Plains or Shieldgrass squares. Another 4 huts were on squares which could give a free city but not a shield resource.
Instead of 21 Cavalries, i could have started 4000 BC with 10 cities, 10 Cavs and a Leg. Or 7 hot cities, 4 Cavalries and 500 gp in the bank, which means Pyramids and declaring myself a democracy in 3820 BC. The point is, when you can save and move before the rival bunnies graduate into rival cities, you get all the huts, so you can have whatever kind of empire you want, all prepared and ready to spring into action in 4000 BC.
One more facet to it: in 4000 BC a hut will never turn into a free tech. But after that, you can get free techs even before you have a city. With strategic restarts and reserving certain huts for later, i could have started 4000 BC with 6 cities each with a fully developed fat-cross area, 4 Cavs to neutralize the 4 rival Settler-civs, and 1 Cav to hit the other 10 huts in 3980 BC.
With patience and restarts, 10 huts in 3980 BC means going from Mysticism to Magnetism when your empire is 20 years old. Six Frigates + five freelance Cavalries in 3800 BC, now tell me that's not a guaranteed win on Emperor? If you're going for a full conquest win, you need 12 kills. In 4000 BC, in this scenario, i can put 4 down right out of the gate, actually while still in the gate, then with the Cavs spread out to cover likely respawn spots, could get 7-8 kills by 3960.
Now one more experiment, this one for full glory.... i have save-games where the AI spawned all 7 civs on the same landmass. Do the math here. If that landmass has got 20 huts and you can patiently milk those huts for whatever you want, then you can get 6 Legions and 14 Cavalry units, all into position before the game even starts. Put the Leg's next to 6 rival bunnies, and spread the Cavs out to likely-looking respawn spots.
Ta daaaa, with an army like that you can kill 6 rival Settlers while it's still 4000 BC, and have a sporting chance of catching the 6 helpless respawns in 3980 BC. With respawn luck (or a few more save-restarts), you can even end the game in 3980 BC. Yes, 3980 BC.
It's a One Turn Win only using 1 cheat, but heavy reliance on that save-restart cheat. You need a world with a big continent, and, it only works when you can save the game in 4000 BC. Pity it can't be the Zero Turn Win, but if you kill a rival civ in its bunny Setty incarnation in 4000 BC, you still need an end-turn routine for the respawn to happen; a save-restart is not enough to wipe the dead civ off the books.
What i have not tried yet, is getting 12 kills before i have founded a city. Not sure if it's possible to win the game with zero population, but you can bet i'm gonna try.
