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A bit of Government advice, Please

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by reese09, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. reese09

    reese09 Chieftain

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    previously, i've only played my C3 games on the first 2 difficulties (chieftan, warlord?). after taking a lot of basic advice from the Academy, and other questions i've asked you guys, i'm playing my last game on Warlord (if that is indeed the second level) before jumping up to regent. one thing that bothers me, however, is my style of government.

    i usually rush to get Monarchy, as it seems to give me the best amount of unit support to be able to defend myself, as well as fight drawn out wars should i need to be a bit aggressive. i've won space race victories, point victories, and i think i've won a domination victory before. but, i know that in the jump to higher levels, i will need to be a bit more flexible with my choice of government to max out my production/commerce and whatnot. but like i've said before, i can see no reason to switch to other governments, that seem to offer less unit support. i tend to be more of a defensive nation, unless a key resource is just within reach, or if someone else pisses me off to the point where i feel i need to eliminate them.

    i guess the advice i need is how can i use governments like Republic, and Democracy, to help better my game? although i tend to be defensive, i'd like the ability to reach out and touch someone if need be. also, i've settled on the Iroquois and Japan, though i am continually testing other nations. thanks in advance!
     
  2. Alexsy

    Alexsy Chieftain

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    Republic is awesome. Right now, I'm in an industrial era slugfest as the germans, using republic, and it's going great. i've waged a campaign of elimination against the japanese, and i'm about to embark on a walk through england. i'm playing at the regent level.

    one trick to republic, i've found, is to really pay attention to your luxury-science-tax slider. i'm operating at a 5.3.2 (50% tax, 30% science, 20% luxury) level, but that i've also done 4.3.3 as well. few of my cities have temples, let alone police stations, and my approval rating, according to the demographics, is 91%.

    the other reason i'm not encountering any happiness issues is because i've traded for, built cities around, or simply taken via war as many luxuries as possible. you would be surprised how effective a republic can be in war, assuming you've laid that background: marketplace, bank, high lux rate, and luxury resources can be amazing.

    regarding unit support, i don't see that alone as being enough of a reason to stay in monarchy. i would bet that the hit you take on the economy (relative to the outstanding economic capacities of republic or dem) would outweigh the benefits of having more free units. in other words, though you have to pay for all units in a republic, you have a stronger overall economy. better research = better units, and a large republic can generate a TON of money. this is my theory, anyway.

    i rarely use monarchy. then again, i'm not a warmonger in the true sense of the word. i've also found that republics can take a few turns to really get going, but when they do, they can be quite powerful and well-balanced.
     
  3. IbnSina

    IbnSina Former Lurker

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    I second the recommendation for republic. You can have a lot of wars without much trouble in republic, so long as you use the luxury slider (or better yet, buy or capture luxuries), and so long as you don't suffer serious defeats. If you lose a lot of units or a city, then your people will become unhappy quickly.
     
  4. reese09

    reese09 Chieftain

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    how exactly do you raise your tax slider? is this just by creating taxmen in each individual city? or is there another way???
     
  5. reese09

    reese09 Chieftain

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    i think i may have figured it out...in the parentheses next to your government, there are 3 numbers, say 4.3.3, where 4 would mean 40 percent tax, 3 is 30 percent science, and 3 is 30 percent luxury?

    wouldn't having your science so low hinder your research? or is the payoff with the different governments being able to devote more scientists per city, or something?

    i usually try to grab as many extra luxuries as i can, and keep the slider near 10 or zero.
     
  6. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

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    Correct! :thumbsup:
    Comparing Republic and Monarchy: Republic will usually generate a lot more commerce, and it's entirely possible for a republic spending 40% on science to actually generate more science than a Monarchy at a higher rate.

    Try this: Next time you revolt, save the turn before you come out of Anarchy. Choose one government and take some notes. Then reload the previous save, and choose another government. Compare...
    This is one thing you are doing right. Are you building lots of marketplaces? Excellent happiness benefits once you get 3 or 4 luxuries hooked up... but when you get beyond Monarch, you'll find it increasingly difficult to keep the lux slider at zero.
     
  7. reese09

    reese09 Chieftain

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    okay scoutsout...i did what you suggested, and here are my results (mind the fact that i'm recieving about 526 gpt from other civs):

    Democracy 4.3.3
    742 gpt
    Espionage 9 turns
    130 units, 0 allowed


    Republic 4.3.3
    631 gpt
    Espionage 9 turns
    130 units, 72 allowed


    Monarchy 4.3.3
    535 gpt
    Espionage 14 turns
    130 units, 114 allowed



    based on those stats, Democracy would be the preferrable choice. Even with no unit support, and just 40 percent science, my research is only a few turns off what i had when i was running 0.10.0 with Monarchy beforehand. Plus, more gpt. Republic also looked pretty good. I know those were only a few surface differences, though. what other differences would make Republic more favorable over Democracy, or vice-versa? will that 0 unit support bite you in the butt later on?
     
  8. ssvensson

    ssvensson The bus over all busses

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    No because in demo u only pay 1 gold per unit in republic u pay 2 gold in support if u r over the allowed limit.
     
  9. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

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    Bear in mind, the choice is usually between Republic and Monarchy... if pursuing a Spaceship or Diplomatic win, Democracy is usually superior to Republic...

    ...unless there are some possible wars on the horizon. Though Republic can suffer War Weariness, it is quite a bit more durable than Democracy during wartime. You can actually do a fair amount of warmongering in Republic. (But for serious warmongering, Monarchy is the way to go...)
     
  10. reese09

    reese09 Chieftain

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    okay guys, thanks very much for the advice...i have a better understanding about those particular governments now, and i will use them as i see my game expanding. not particularly a warmongerer, though i like to fight long wars when they come up, especially against some hated civs. but once again, thanks for the advice!!!
     
  11. Trev

    Trev Prince

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    My advice would be in your situation to rework your tax, luxury science mix, with 526gpt coming in each turn, that can pay your total expenses of your empire, so a 0% tax is realistic, also usually it is better to connect and trade for more luxury resources and also lower your luxury rate to 10%, as 6 luxuries and marketplace will keep 12 people happy, 8 luxuries and marketplace 20 people happy, and these work in all cities including your badly corrupt cities, whereas a higher luxury rate is only really effective in cities with low corruption. This would allow 90% science which would possibly reduce your learning to the minimum of 4 turns and allow you to really rocket ahead of your competitors, particularly on democracy.
    If on democracy you have superior military technology, war weariness will be minimal, particularly when artillery is used to weaken defenders, but if WW kicks in raise luxury temporarily to 30 - 40%, throw everything at your enemy in one last heroic attack, then make peace prior to the end of your move, so WW does not cause your gov't to revolt, you will get good peace terms also
     
  12. Solomwi

    Solomwi Prince

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    One thing to notice from your results: fewer units, or more cities for support, would make Republic slightly more profitable than Democracy, so the answer isn't always cut and dried.

    You're currently 58 units over the Rep support limit, costing you 116 gold, and the difference between the two is 111 gold. This difference gets more pronounced on larger maps and with larger militaries. For instance, in my current game, on a huge continents map, I'm in Republic with support for 686 units, even though I only have 461. If I were at the limit, that would be nearly 700 gpt that the corruption reduction of Democracy would have to make up (and in my experience, it never does in a large empire/large military situation). Sure, the extra worker speed is nice, but with the support, I can build 50% more workers easily. Couple this with the aforementioned WW durability of Republic, and it's no wonder I haven't switched to Democracy since C3C was released.

    Assuming you have access to all the governments, Communism is the government of choice for hardcore C3C warmongering. With the Secret Police HQ and communal corruption model, it's a true corruption buster. The only trick to it is goldrushing libraries and markets in your non-productive cities just before you revolt.
     
  13. Alexsy

    Alexsy Chieftain

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    This may be a stupid question, but I'm playing vanilla Civ 3, and in my republic gov't, I don't have any unit support. Is this an addition in PTW or C3C? Or is it that I'm playing the Mac version (not sure why that would make a difference, though.)
     
  14. Prince David

    Prince David David di Xeno

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    There were a lot of tweaks in 3C3, including unit support costs. In vanilla the only real difference beween repub and demo was war weariness, workers and corruption. The new unit allowance and cost makes for a bigger difference between the two.

    One big key in being a successful war monger in repub or even democracy has to do with who starts the wars. It can be pretty imprecise science, but when they attack you, you have a much easier time w/weariness. And everybody loves a winner. Keep your losses to a minimum and steadily increase your territory and you'd be surprized how long you can stay at it.

    One of my favorite strats is to pretty much stay defensive while your opponent exhausts their army against you. Defend your cities with artillary and good defensive units, send out occasional pillaging forays and keep an eye on your military advisor. Provoke a Civ in monarchy or fuedalism and you can probably out produce them which means while they're wasting units against your well defended border towns, you're cranking out offensive units in your core cities. When the military advisor says, "Compared to them we have a strong military" go crush the !@#^**$-ers. During my last reagent game I was at war for nearly an age and a half with republic/democracy and had very little trouble with war weariness.
     
  15. Alexsy

    Alexsy Chieftain

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    thanks for clarifying that. While I think much of your description of rep/dem holds true for vanilla, I can't imagine how great it would be to have unit support in a republic.
     
  16. KabeDerlin

    KabeDerlin Prince

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    Don't you mean C3C? :lol:
     
  17. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    It is a very interesting addition, but it is a bit of a double edged sword, as any units over the free support cost 2 gpt, so if you have more than twice the number of free support units it costs more in C3C. Just 2 workers and a defender per city and 1 worker per town is your unit support.
     
  18. Paradigne

    Paradigne Emperor

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    Should probably start a new post... but does ANYONE use facism????
     
  19. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

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    Ision wrote an article comparing Fascism to Communism. I think it's in Strategy Articles. Though I haven't tried Fascism yet, I suspect it has its place... most likely when small, and in need of getting on the warpath to take a chunk of AI territory... Most humans don't neede it because they are either a) in democracy and pursuing Diplo/spaceship wins or b) owners of a larger warmonger's empire that makes communism preferable to fascism.
     
  20. seanos08

    seanos08 Monarch

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    In regent I find republic great and never change out of it, even though I have wars.
     

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